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Old May 17 2013, 08:51 PM   #16
Captain McBain
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Re: Universal Translator

Someone already mentioned that Chewbacca could be somewhat understood in the Star Wars universe. That's an objective fact. I think it's okay to speculate. Otherwise, this website would be reduced to "Who's your favorite Star Trek character?," "What doctor is most proficient?," etc. etc.

Plus, a few months ago you started a thread asking when machines would be considered to be alive or conscious in the real world. Obviously, no objective facts support such a position, so any of the posts in that thread would be mere guesses. Why, then, did you even start that conversation?
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Old May 18 2013, 12:42 PM   #17
Timo
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Re: Universal Translator

Someone already mentioned that Chewbacca could be somewhat understood in the Star Wars universe. That's an objective fact.
Is it? In the onscreen version of that universe, Chewbacca doesn't really deliver any information to his fellow adventurers through his growls - except when pointing at a warning light on the Falcon's control panel at the same time, or suggestively waving a gun, etc. Sure, the heroes "answer" as if they understood what Chewbacca said, but the various handlers of Lassie did that a lot, too. Doesn't mean there'd be intelligence at both ends of the conversation.

The Calamarain appeared just plain alien, plus just a tad hostile. The Breen appeared secretive, and very hostile. Surely the latter would put more effort to thwarting any translation attempts...

Seriously? In WW2, as soon as the Germans figured out that the British could understand German, did they suddenly change what German was? Codes and secret communications, yes, you are right. But the basic language, no.
Yes, seriously. What could Germans possibly have to do with this? They didn't have Universal Translators.

Timo Saloniemi

Last edited by Timo; May 18 2013 at 12:52 PM.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:14 PM   #18
Merry Christmas
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Re: Universal Translator

TheRoyalFamily wrote: View Post
And just one of the parties needs the translator. The Ancient Hew-mons could understand the Ferengi just fine once the latter fixed their UT's.
I figure one of two things were happening. Either the Ferengi were composing what they wanted to say in their minds, the translator picked this up and fed it back to them in the desired language and the Ferengi consciously speak the words phonetically.

Or, the translator had more control over the process, the Ferengi were thinking what they wanted to say, at which point the translator completely takes over the process and controls the breath, vocal cords, tongue, lips, and jaw of the Ferengi to produce words in the foreign language.


Last edited by Merry Christmas; May 18 2013 at 02:36 PM.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:23 PM   #19
Gov Kodos
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Re: Universal Translator

Tiberius wrote: View Post
Captain McBain wrote: View Post
Tiberius wrote: View Post

Depends. If the writer of the work in question wanted it to, then it could. If the writer didn't want it to, then it couldn't.



Whichever one the writer wants.

Seriously, these things are pretty much made up as they go along. They don't answer these questions until there's a need to answer them, so any answer anyone here gives is no more accurate than whatever you want.
Yeah, but just saying 'whatever the writer wants' is a non-answer. If you don't have an intelligent thought, then don't answer!
An intelligent answer? Considering there are absolutely no facts whatsoever to support any claims made in regards to your questions, it's basically just being made up. Any "intelligent" answer would basically just be guessing, and I'm sure you can do that yourself.

With the lack of any objective standards, there can be no intelligent answers to your question, rendering them unanswerable.
Whatever the writer wants is just about the best answer there is. The UT is magic tech that works or not at the writers' whimsy. Given how we've seen them operate, there is no reason why in Damok the things shouldn't have worked, except the writers didn't want them to.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:01 PM   #20
Captain McBain
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Re: Universal Translator

I guess I just don't like the 'what the writer wants' answer. Yes, ultimately, Star Trek is fiction, and so every answer can be given that the writer just happened to do it that way. But this website wouldn't be very much fun if that's the only response people gave for non-opinion questions.
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Old May 18 2013, 04:59 PM   #21
Misfit Toy
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Re: Universal Translator

Captain McBain wrote: View Post
I guess I just don't like the 'what the writer wants' answer. Yes, ultimately, Star Trek is fiction, and so every answer can be given that the writer just happened to do it that way. But this website wouldn't be very much fun if that's the only response people gave for non-opinion questions.
It isn't very fun when you call someone's answer "non-intelligent" simply because it isn't the response you wanted. Please try to avoid that.
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Old May 18 2013, 05:27 PM   #22
Timo
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Re: Universal Translator

We may always try and invent our own rules and limitations for the UT tech even when we have zero idea of how it works - the evidence from the episodes allows us to establish such rules and limitations for warp drive, transporters and phasers easily enough even when those are fictional and contrary to modern scientific knowledge.

The problem with the UT is that even the tiniest thing it does is already fundamentally magic; it's very difficult to establish limits when the 1st Rule is "the possibilities are endless!".

This doesn't mean the UT would be particularly unrealistic, though. Computing would have been pure magic to us half a century ago, and even today the limits of its applications elude us, but it's not fiction, and in many ways surpasses fiction as far as limitless technologies go.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old May 18 2013, 07:42 PM   #23
Captain McBain
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Re: Universal Translator

I never used the term 'non-intelligent.'
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Old May 19 2013, 12:29 AM   #24
The Wormhole
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Re: Universal Translator

Timo wrote: View Post
Someone already mentioned that Chewbacca could be somewhat understood in the Star Wars universe. That's an objective fact.
Is it? In the onscreen version of that universe, Chewbacca doesn't really deliver any information to his fellow adventurers through his growls - except when pointing at a warning light on the Falcon's control panel at the same time, or suggestively waving a gun, etc. Sure, the heroes "answer" as if they understood what Chewbacca said, but the various handlers of Lassie did that a lot, too. Doesn't mean there'd be intelligence at both ends of the conversation.
Chewbacca fills Han Solo in on what he missed while being frozen when they're both in Jabba's dungeon in ROTJ.
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Old May 20 2013, 05:36 PM   #25
Timo
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Re: Universal Translator

Ah, right. Hard to see how Han could have gotten that figured out from mere Lassie barks. I mean, he could well get the "You were delivered to Jabba" bit figured out by himself while listening to Chewie's soothing but meaningless grunts, but he couldn't get Luke's name and the fact he's a Jedi now unless the growls really contained those bits of information.

Unless he got it out of Leia already and is merely ranting it out when paired with Chewbacca. Or unless the Force is strong with him or something.

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