RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,262
Posts: 5,349,433
Members: 24,614
Currently online: 599
Newest member: robyn

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 20 2013, 02:54 PM   #46
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

teacake wrote: View Post
How old are you Triskelion?
I'm curious about that myself. Also, you've again ignored the points I raised, Triskellion -- are you not interested in discussing the fact that the question you ask is asked in earnest by every generation, and yet we've been pretty consistently progressing rather than collapsing? Are you not at least a bit concerned that, maybe it is more than a tad hypocritical of you to complain about having your own narrow perspective highlighted whilst claiming again and again that people "don't know the difference. They don't know the difference." Again, how old are you? How do the five years, ten years, or twenty five years you might have on some of us posting here give you more authority to speak on cultural trends spanning millennia? Upon serious examination how do you not see the arrogance of such a position?

The icing on the Hypocrisy Cake is the fact that you listened to only two of Kanye West's songs before coming to your conclusions! I happen to like a lot of his music -- but maybe I just don't know the difference.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 03:04 PM   #47
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

This actually reminds me of a friend I have. He and I are the same age, and he is the biggest music snob I've ever met. He refuses to listen to anything mainstream because he "studied music" and has a better understanding of it than normal people. He'd rather sit down and analyze the rhyme and meter of a song and appreciate the mathematics of the notes. I just want something with a catchy beat than I can sing along to.

I played some songs on the jukebox the other night, and he immediately judged me. He couldn't believe I actually liked the songs I was playing. I said, "I like them because they're fun." He replied, "Sure, they're fun, but they're not good."
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:30 PM   #48
Count Zero
Yeah, I know...
 
Count Zero's Avatar
 
Location: Land of Awesome
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Well, taste in music is a contentious issue. I'm a bit of a cultural snob myself but I usually succeed in reining myself in. I can understand your friend's pleasure at the form of music, the mathematics as you put it. If music is also able to stimulate me intellectually it's an additional thrill for me.
__________________
"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would permit us to be pirates." Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
Count Zero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:35 PM   #49
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Well, taste in music is a contentious issue. I'm a bit of a cultural snob myself but I usually succeed in reining myself in. I can understand your friend's pleasure at the form of music, the mathematics as you put it. If music is also able to stimulate me intellectually it's an additional thrill for me.
Which is totally fine. People enjoy things for all sorts of reasons. What's irritating is being treated like some kind of dullard for not enjoying music on a purely intellectual level.

There are three times when I listen to music:
1) when I'm driving
2) when I'm at the gym
3) when I'm bartending

In those instances, I'm usually focused on other things. I never listen to music just to listen to music. It is nearly always secondary to something else going on.

Or in the example from the OP: comedians. It doesn't matter why I think something is funny. If a comedian says something and I laugh, he's doing his job. I don't care how long he slaved away trying to write the perfect joke.
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:47 PM   #50
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^^^But...but...only people with audio engineering degrees can truly appreciate Music!
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:49 PM   #51
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Old enough not to "get" modern music? Check!

Traveled the world? Check!

Doesn't really understand that culture changes; that current culture is neither inherently superior or inferior to previous culture? Nope, can't check that.

Two out of three ain't bad. Am I qualified to take part in this conversation or will I not "know the difference"?
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 05:51 PM   #52
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^You are not qualified. I am too young for my observations to count, and you are even younger than me.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 06:08 PM   #53
sojourner
Vice Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^Really? Are you sure? I'm old enough to have seen the original Star Wars in the theatre before "A New Hope" was added to the subtitle.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 06:19 PM   #54
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^I was mixing you up with someone else! Oops! Sorry! Please don't take offense, I always mix people up. All this time I thought you were, like, 27, but you're totally a dinosaur!



__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 06:40 PM   #55
Pingfah
Admiral
 
Pingfah's Avatar
 
Location: Cornwall, UK
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
This actually reminds me of a friend I have. He and I are the same age, and he is the biggest music snob I've ever met. He refuses to listen to anything mainstream because he "studied music" and has a better understanding of it than normal people. He'd rather sit down and analyze the rhyme and meter of a song and appreciate the mathematics of the notes. I just want something with a catchy beat than I can sing along to.

I played some songs on the jukebox the other night, and he immediately judged me. He couldn't believe I actually liked the songs I was playing. I said, "I like them because they're fun." He replied, "Sure, they're fun, but they're not good."
Introduce him to a band called Battles. They are Math Rock, and completely awesome. That should keep him occupied for a while.
__________________
So it goes.
Pingfah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 07:21 PM   #56
Owain Taggart
Rear Admiral
 
Owain Taggart's Avatar
 
Location: Northern Ontario, Canada
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Pingfah wrote: View Post
There's more of everything now, and it's all more accessible, so naturally there's more crappy art. There's more good art as well, if people stop whining about what their television places in front of them and go find it.

It's always been the case that if you just allow the media to spoonfeed you your entertainment, you'll end up with the blandest most universally inoffensive nonsense available. Mainstream media is about pleasing as many people as possible with the same product. For every Pink Floyd, there's ten Bay City Rollers.

Bingo. Pretty much what I've tried to say. If one only ever follows mainstream media, then yeah, one would be disappointed. Discovering something one likes often means digging for it, digging for that special gem. Since everyone has different tastes, those gems will be different to everyone. That's not to say all mainstream is bad though, it just means mainstream is never going to dig as deep as one would like. And then there's the fact that something that isn't to your liking might be somebody's most favourite thing ever.
Owain Taggart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 08:04 PM   #57
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^Exactly. That's why these complaints speak only about the complainer, not the culture.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:48 PM   #58
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

RoJoHen wrote: View Post

I played some songs on the jukebox the other night, and he immediately judged me. He couldn't believe I actually liked the songs I was playing. I said, "I like them because they're fun." He replied, "Sure, they're fun, but they're not good."
My least favorite comment on music! People (with pleasure, it seems) wipe out whole genres with that line.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne

Last edited by teacake; May 20 2013 at 11:03 PM.
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:56 PM   #59
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Popular culture is about more than young people, so the Generation Gap stuff is missing the point. It may be that the declining attention span of many young people contributes to the superficiality of much entertainment, but it also may be that the nostalgia of many older people contributes to the stagnation of culture. It also misses the point of cultural cycles-- as I mentioned earlier, periods of innovation are followed by periods of stagnation (or stability, if you prefer). Evolutionary biologists call it punctuated equilibrium.

Pingfah wrote: View Post
There's more of everything now, and it's all more accessible, so naturally there's more crappy art. There's more good art as well, if people stop whining about what their television places in front of them and go find it.
Unfortunately, that's what most people do. But you make a good point-- with the increased availability of more esoteric work on the Internet, the mainstream outlets are more motivated to shoot for the lowest common denominator.

It's always been the case that if you just allow the media to spoonfeed you your entertainment, you'll end up with the blandest most universally inoffensive nonsense available. Mainstream media is about pleasing as many people as possible with the same product. For every Pink Floyd, there's ten Bay City Rollers.
Exactly (not that those kinds of artists can't be entertaining), which is what is exciting about modern opportunities for independent creators. How are you making out with your stuff? Also, do you have any other recommendations (I'll look for the Battles)?

Count Zero wrote: View Post
Well, taste in music is a contentious issue. I'm a bit of a cultural snob myself but I usually succeed in reining myself in. I can understand your friend's pleasure at the form of music, the mathematics as you put it. If music is also able to stimulate me intellectually it's an additional thrill for me.
I'd say that's being an elitist, rather than a snob. High standards are good. What snobs don't understand is that it's okay to like something even if it's not good, just like it's okay to dislike something even if it is good. Taste and personal aesthetics always enter into it. But you just have to be aware of which is which.
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards!
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 21 2013, 12:03 AM   #60
thestrangequark
Vice Admiral
 
thestrangequark's Avatar
 
Location: thestrangequark
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^Again, just because you personally have failed to find the great art and music of a younger generation doesn't mean it doesn't exist. And it's just untruthful to claim that the pop culture of the 50s, 60s, 70s, or 80s was any deeper than that of today. Also, high standards do not equal snobbery. The difference between having high standards and being a snob is the difference between bing refined and being a dick.
__________________
The Enterprise is my TARDIS.

View my art!
thestrangequark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:13 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.