RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,943
Posts: 5,479,274
Members: 25,056
Currently online: 638
Newest member: JeremiahJT

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 20 2013, 10:12 AM   #31
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

I hate these threads. Wah wah, stuff changed.

Yeah that was a useful contribution the discussion
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:14 AM   #32
Gov Kodos
Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

teacake wrote: View Post
I hate these threads. Wah wah, stuff changed.

Yeah that was a useful contribution the discussion
When folks start saying C/7 is OK standards have gone through the floor.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star! Endora, Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:21 AM   #33
Triskelion
Rear Admiral
 
Triskelion's Avatar
 
Location: Scotland Yard
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
I was talking about RJD's usual shameless self-promoting, but it seems I struck a nerve, eh? Something tells me you don't take criticism very well.
Here's another version of events: you're not shaming anybody. Sorry to tell you. If you don't like RJD's posts - I don't know what you expect the world to do about it? Good luck.


Oh, and - criticism isn't the problem. The lack of criticism is the problem. But if it helps the "younger generation" to draw lines in the sand, feel free. Please excuse me for not learning from the obvious in order to talk about the insidious.


Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
Yes, the existence and continued success of Oscar Mayer products inclines me to say yes. Standards have been lowered by the desire for easy to acquire, low price, and ease of consumption. Be it music, food, clothing or most else, the model of business for the consumer has diminished expectations, but its alternative is a model where only a few could afford the good, while the rest had cast off leavings. Overall, quality is improved for the greatest numbers of people, but that's OK. Where hardly in bad times, and the Western world, not even inconvenienced so much as bored by our success.

You bring up some good points, Gov Kodos. I read today where more people are dissatisfied with ill-fitting clothes off the rack, and there is a resurgence of custom clothing design. When you look at the increasing quality of factory production - for example, the cheap replication of handcrafted lace of certain European villages - those long-evolving skills threaten to die out with the older cultures. I have met many people who shrug at that.

They don't know the difference.

They don't know the difference.

That is the problem.

Not that culture "should" be preserved. But that monumental shifts have been occurring in the last few decades that are changing the global economy in ways no one fully understands. (Sorry if this offends the "smart" set).
Triskelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:28 AM   #34
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

At 35, I am ecstatic to be called a "youngster".

But keep digging. After your scornful reply to Kestra, you lost all privileges for a polite conversation.
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.

Last edited by iguana_tonante; May 20 2013 at 11:42 AM.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:28 AM   #35
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Gov Kodos wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
I hate these threads. Wah wah, stuff changed.

Yeah that was a useful contribution the discussion
When folks start saying C/7 is OK standards have gone through the floor.
Hey man, I'm on the side of looove.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:53 AM   #36
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Triskelion wrote: View Post

You bring up some good points, Gov Kodos. I read today where more people are dissatisfied with ill-fitting clothes off the rack, and there is a resurgence of custom clothing design. When you look at the increasing quality of factory production - for example, the cheap replication of handcrafted lace of certain European villages - those long-evolving skills threaten to die out with the older cultures. I have met many people who shrug at that.

They don't know the difference.

They don't know the difference.

That is the problem.

Not that culture "should" be preserved. But that monumental shifts have been occurring in the last few decades that are changing the global economy in ways no one fully understands. (Sorry if this offends the "smart" set).
You know this has been happening since the industrial revolution and alongside it happening people of all ages rediscover and explore old craft skills?

We no longer need those skills to clothe ourselves. Thanks to the efficiency of factories our children no longer go cold because we have no money to buy blankets and they no longer get ill because the couple items they have to wear are germ infested. They no longer have to stay home from school because we can't afford shoes for every one of them, fine made leather shoes hand crafted like all shoes used to be. That was reality not too long ago in the slums of big cities in europe and america.

And despite no longer needing beautiful lace or fine leather shoes or hand spun and woven blankets there has been a never disappearing culture of those who love to learn these old skills and recreate them. Knitting is huge now for instance, but much more specialized things such as hand tooled woodwork are also pursued.

You are wrong that no one understands. People do understand and value old skills and crafts, MANY people have devoted themselves to preserving these skills and teaching others. But people also understand that cheap mass produced goods have inestimably improved the quality of life of those without money.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:55 AM   #37
Avon
Fleet Captain
 
Avon's Avatar
 
Location: Intergalactic Wales
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Triskelion wrote: View Post

They don't know the difference.

That is the problem.
'they' know the difference. 'they' just don't care. 'they' have to block out the noise of whiney people judging them continually for percieved faults when there are none.

if this was footloose, you're the guy that would ban dancing.
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Avon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 10:58 AM   #38
Triskelion
Rear Admiral
 
Triskelion's Avatar
 
Location: Scotland Yard
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

^No, I'm Kevin Bacon motherfukcer.

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
At 35, I am ecstatic to be called a "youngster".

But keep digging. After your scornful reply to Kestra, you lost all privileges for a polite conversation.

I'm sorry. I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.


Clearly this thread has made some feel singled out which was never the intention.

But in this thread, I've been insinuated "limited in perspective," "condescending," and "unable to take criticism."

If these are undesirable traits to those citing them - then look no further than the mirror and overcome these failings in yourselves.

This topic - is not about "you."

If there's nothing wrong with you - there must be something wrong with the universe!
Triskelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 11:22 AM   #39
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

How old are you Triskelion?
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 11:26 AM   #40
Triskelion
Rear Admiral
 
Triskelion's Avatar
 
Location: Scotland Yard
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

teacake wrote: View Post
Triskelion wrote: View Post

You bring up some good points, Gov Kodos. I read today where more people are dissatisfied with ill-fitting clothes off the rack, and there is a resurgence of custom clothing design. When you look at the increasing quality of factory production - for example, the cheap replication of handcrafted lace of certain European villages - those long-evolving skills threaten to die out with the older cultures. I have met many people who shrug at that.

They don't know the difference.

They don't know the difference.

That is the problem.

Not that culture "should" be preserved. But that monumental shifts have been occurring in the last few decades that are changing the global economy in ways no one fully understands. (Sorry if this offends the "smart" set).
You know this has been happening since the industrial revolution and alongside it happening people of all ages rediscover and explore old craft skills?

We no longer need those skills to clothe ourselves. Thanks to the efficiency of factories our children no longer go cold because we have no money to buy blankets and they no longer get ill because the couple items they have to wear are germ infested. They no longer have to stay home from school because we can't afford shoes for every one of them, fine made leather shoes hand crafted like all shoes used to be. That was reality not too long ago in the slums of big cities in europe and america.

And despite no longer needing beautiful lace or fine leather shoes or hand spun and woven blankets there has been a never disappearing culture of those who love to learn these old skills and recreate them. Knitting is huge now for instance, but much more specialized things such as hand tooled woodwork are also pursued.

You are wrong that no one understands. People do understand and value old skills and crafts, MANY people have devoted themselves to preserving these skills and teaching others. But people also understand that cheap mass produced goods have inestimably improved the quality of life of those without money.


Nicely put, Teacake. Would that everyone shared your balanced view here.


Moving forward from the industrial revolution to the information revolution of other recently industrialized countries, I wish the Australian economy and others like it the very best of health as global web companies suck the life out of their home economies - literally. Particularly the garment industries, among others.

Also, I'm sorry to say that no, things are not so evenly-keeled as we would like them to be. People elsewhere are in a race to overproduce and drop the bottom out of western markets - where the money is (let's not get ideological if possible). Simply put, the Web has created global free trade with players who a)do not reciprocate free trade, b)actively work toward zero sum economics to the detriment of global economy, c)do not share global good will.

Yes, I can certainly understand intellectually and emotionally the optimistic view of global Web communications. But the fact of the matter is no one knows how these transformations are going to change the world, and I can already say it is not ipso facto "All for the best" (if I may trot out a textbook reference).


By the way, although I've somehow been cast on a side, I'm not actually taking any "sides."
Triskelion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 11:39 AM   #41
Avon
Fleet Captain
 
Avon's Avatar
 
Location: Intergalactic Wales
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Triskelion wrote: View Post

Clearly this thread has made some feel singled out which was never the intention.

But in this thread, I've been insinuated "limited in perspective," "condescending," and "unable to take criticism."

If these are undesirable traits to those citing them - then look no further than the mirror and overcome these failings in yourselves.

This topic - is not about "you."

If there's nothing wrong with you - there must be something wrong with the universe!
i'm one of these young peoples you have actually singled out, and the evidence is your previous posts.
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Avon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 12:00 PM   #42
Kestra
Vice Admiral
 
Kestra's Avatar
 
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Triskelion wrote: View Post
^No, I'm Kevin Bacon motherfukcer.

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
At 35, I am ecstatic to be called a "youngster".

But keep digging. After your scornful reply to Kestra, you lost all privileges for a polite conversation.

I'm sorry. I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.


Clearly this thread has made some feel singled out which was never the intention.

But in this thread, I've been insinuated "limited in perspective," "condescending," and "unable to take criticism."

If these are undesirable traits to those citing them - then look no further than the mirror and overcome these failings in yourselves.

This topic - is not about "you."

If there's nothing wrong with you - there must be something wrong with the universe!
I don't feel singled out or hurt. I was letting you know how you are coming across because your choice of words and defensiveness are obscuring any other points you are trying to make. You've also completely ignored some valid discussion points and instead reacted defensively, responding to people that you feel are attacking you.

Yes, I told you that you were coming off as condescending and narrow-minded. I'm not above reproach myself so I'm not sure why you're telling us to look inward. My flaws are many but not particularly relevant here.

I believe that tsq in particular made some good points. This question that you're asking has come up time and time again throughout history. Popular music shouldn't be used to indict our society with cultural decline.
Kestra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 12:30 PM   #43
Pingfah
Admiral
 
Pingfah's Avatar
 
Location: Pingfah
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

There's more of everything now, and it's all more accessible, so naturally there's more crappy art. There's more good art as well, if people stop whining about what their television places in front of them and go find it.

It's always been the case that if you just allow the media to spoonfeed you your entertainment, you'll end up with the blandest most universally inoffensive nonsense available. Mainstream media is about pleasing as many people as possible with the same product. For every Pink Floyd, there's ten Bay City Rollers.
__________________
So it goes.
Pingfah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 01:10 PM   #44
iguana_tonante
Admiral
 
iguana_tonante's Avatar
 
Location: Italy, EU
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Triskelion wrote: View Post
I'm sorry. I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings.
I don't care about anybody's feelings. But you lost your right to the high ground the moment you started being condescending to people (i.e., around post #1).
__________________
Scientist. Gentleman. Teacher. Fighter. Lover. Father.
iguana_tonante is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 20 2013, 02:44 PM   #45
RoJoHen
Awesome
 
RoJoHen's Avatar
 
Location: QC, IL, USA
Re: Have cultural standards gotten lower?

Pingfah wrote: View Post
There's more of everything now, and it's all more accessible, so naturally there's more crappy art. There's more good art as well, if people stop whining about what their television places in front of them and go find it.

It's always been the case that if you just allow the media to spoonfeed you your entertainment, you'll end up with the blandest most universally inoffensive nonsense available. Mainstream media is about pleasing as many people as possible with the same product. For every Pink Floyd, there's ten Bay City Rollers.
This. It's like reading the comments underneath a YouTube video. For every legitimate, intelligent post, there are 30 posts saying "this video is gay" and "tHis SUXXXXX!!!!!1."

Culture hasn't declined. Stupid people just have a much easier time being heard.

And yeah, maybe the internet has made it easier for random "mediocre" people to get their 15 minutes of fame, but it's ultimately fleeting. People might remember the Double Rainbow video, but does anybody remember the guy's name?

On the flip side, the internet has also made it easier for truly talented people to get themselves out there. Instead of hoping to meet the right people at the right time, they can get their work out to a much larger audience without needing to be "discovered."
__________________
I am the Quintessential Admiral.
RoJoHen is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.