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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Name Of The Doctor"
Merlin 111 72.08%
Radagast the brown 30 19.48%
Barty crouch jr 5 3.25%
Destro 5 3.25%
Malekith 3 1.95%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 19 2013, 07:17 PM   #196
lennier1
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Well, considering how deep that rule is burnt into the myth among fans, they'll probably address it and let the writers bullshit their way out of that corner.
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Old May 19 2013, 07:20 PM   #197
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

lennier1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering how deep that rule is burnt into the myth among fans, they'll probably address it and let the writers bullshit their way out of that corner.
Well River did give up all her regenerations to save the Doctor in "Let's Kill Hitler". That's likely a extra 9 or 10 lives right there.
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Old May 19 2013, 07:54 PM   #198
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Okay, I just watched the last five minutes again and after listening to the exchange between Doctor Hurt and Doctor Smith, now I'm not so sure that he's the Doctor in his original form, but rather the 9th. The dialogue does seem to point to an unseen regeneration where he had already taken the name 'The Doctor', but did things that were totally out of line with his moral compass. Perhaps he was so mortified by his actions that he even forced himself to regenerate after that, becoming Eccleston and trying to go back to the type of person he had been prior to the Time War.

I'm just guessing here, but now that I've watched that scene again, I think that perhaps it really does make more sense than an earlier version. And hey, 'The Ninth Doctor' would make a cool title for the November show.
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Old May 19 2013, 07:56 PM   #199
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
lennier1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering how deep that rule is burnt into the myth among fans, they'll probably address it and let the writers bullshit their way out of that corner.
Well River did give up all her regenerations to save the Doctor in "Let's Kill Hitler". That's likely a extra 9 or 10 lives right there.


But does that mean that he can really regenerate that many more times, or will he end up looking like The Master did in 'The Deadly Assassin'?


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Old May 19 2013, 08:03 PM   #200
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

lennier1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering how deep that rule is burnt into the myth among fans, they'll probably address it and let the writers bullshit their way out of that corner.
IIRC both Davies and Moffat said that if either had reached that point in their run they would find a way to deal with it. BBC will not kill the Doctor permanently for a reference that was made decades ago.

The 13 lives thing seems to be more of a restriction than a biological limit. The Master was offered a new set of regenerations in the classic era and was given some during the Time War. The Doctor could say that if he found some random Time Lord device he'd live or simply say that during the Time War all Time Lords were given a larger number of regenerations due to the threat of the Daleks. A single shot seems to either kill them completely or cause a regeneration, having extra lives makes sense with that kind of enemy.
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Old May 19 2013, 08:04 PM   #201
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Procutus wrote: View Post
SeerSGB wrote: View Post
lennier1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering how deep that rule is burnt into the myth among fans, they'll probably address it and let the writers bullshit their way out of that corner.
Well River did give up all her regenerations to save the Doctor in "Let's Kill Hitler". That's likely a extra 9 or 10 lives right there.


But does that mean that he can really regenerate that many more times, or will he end up looking like The Master did in 'The Deadly Assassin'?



As Awesome Possum said hopefully the Timelords gave The Doctor an extra regeneration during the Time War and that could explain Hurt's Doctor.
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Old May 19 2013, 08:08 PM   #202
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

JoeZhang wrote: View Post
aridas sofia wrote: View Post
As I mentioned in the finale thread, I am beginning to think Simeon is The Other. I think this whole thing will turn out to be something hidden in plain sight.
Simeon is dead - he's been dead for a long time. Funny how every twist leads to a fixation with the unlikely - this time around it's The other rather than "it's omega! It's Susan!".
Actually, I don't think that is quite accurate. If the GI was a projection of Simeon himself, then all that died was the physical Simeon. All that was the man still exists in the GI.
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Old May 19 2013, 08:10 PM   #203
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

We've already had the twist at Christmas that Simeon was the origin of the Great Intelligence. Would be pretty insane to also make him The Other.
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Old May 19 2013, 08:16 PM   #204
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The new regenerations for the Master required the involvement of the high council of the Time Lords. Since the reformed Master catapulted them back into their isolation, the writers could always one day let him return as Rassilon's replacement as a leader and kill two birds with one stone. They'd only need a new actor, since Simm's version mentioned that the body was bound to die one way or the other.
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Old May 19 2013, 08:17 PM   #205
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
Racer_X wrote: View Post
Here's one weird observation: when the Tardis crash-landed on Trenzalore, one of the window panes cracked, as the Doctor duly noted upon exiting. This exact same window pane crack appears on the large future dead Tardis when Vastra looks up after first waking up on Trenzalore. Kind of strange; wouldn't that get repaired somehow between now and the Tardis' future (which I assume would be hundreds or thousands of years long)? Was this just artistic license by the FX folks? Or was this a subtle yet intentional hint of some sort?

Hey, I said it was a weird observation....
Not only that, but the 'tomb' version of the TARDIS control room is the same desktop theme as the one 'Eleven' recently got. Yeah, it IS a subtle, intentional hint. And a very heartbreaking one.

We're very near to THE END of the entire Doctor Who saga. 'Eleven' is Twelve, and they're sticking to the whole 13-incarnation lifecycle. When Matt Smith finally decides to leave, the next regeneration will be the LAST regeneration. The Last Doctor. An old man. Maybe ginger at last, maybe not. His birth will also see the birth of the fully-formed Dream Lord/Valeyard.

And his very last adventure, on Trenzalore, will be a 'relatively minor skirmish' as Doctor Who episodes go. The last will die as the first did - collapsing on the floor of the TARDIS from extreme old age and sheer exhaustion.


1.>The TARDIS already has all the control rooms stored even ones the Doctor hasn't uesd yet. ("The Doctors Wife"). So just because the room resembled the 11ths current one doesn't mean he changed it several times over and went back to it at some point. Or due to the TARDIS dying that was one of the few still around.

2.>Just because we've seen the Dcotor's grave doesn't mean it wasn't after his 13th life

3.>We don't know when we visited Trenzalore.

4.>Time can be re-written
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Old May 19 2013, 08:19 PM   #206
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Procutus wrote: View Post
aridas sofia wrote: View Post
I am beginning to think Simeon is The Other.

I haven't had the opportunity to read all of the various threads; just how is this Other? What have I missed?


The Other is a legendary figure in Time Lord History. During era of the 7th Doctor, the script editor Andrew Cartmel felt that all the mystery of the character had gone and sought to reintroduce some mystery. The Cartmel Masterplan, it was dubbed later on by fanon.

There were several hints to to the fact that there was more to the Doctor then just another Time Lord, including a wonderful line "Remembrance of the Daleks" where the 7th Doctor is talking about the Hand of Omega, and mentions "And didn't we have problems with the prototype."

Basically the Other was part of a Triumvirate consisting of him, Rassilon & Omega.

The Virgin New Adventure novels resolved this after the cancellation in 1989 with the novel "Lungbarrow" That says the the time lords were sterile and used Genetic looming technology to breed new Time Lords, The Other was said to have thrown him self into the looms to be reincarnated as the 1st Doctor.

Nightowl1701 wrote: View Post
Racer_X wrote: View Post
Here's one weird observation: when the Tardis crash-landed on Trenzalore, one of the window panes cracked, as the Doctor duly noted upon exiting. This exact same window pane crack appears on the large future dead Tardis when Vastra looks up after first waking up on Trenzalore. Kind of strange; wouldn't that get repaired somehow between now and the Tardis' future (which I assume would be hundreds or thousands of years long)? Was this just artistic license by the FX folks? Or was this a subtle yet intentional hint of some sort?

Hey, I said it was a weird observation....
Not only that, but the 'tomb' version of the TARDIS control room is the same desktop theme as the one 'Eleven' recently got. Yeah, it IS a subtle, intentional hint. And a very heartbreaking one.

We're very near to THE END of the entire Doctor Who saga. 'Eleven' is Twelve, and they're sticking to the whole 13-incarnation lifecycle. When Matt Smith finally decides to leave, the next regeneration will be the LAST regeneration. The Last Doctor. An old man. Maybe ginger at last, maybe not. His birth will also see the birth of the fully-formed Dream Lord/Valeyard.

And his very last adventure, on Trenzalore, will be a 'relatively minor skirmish' as Doctor Who episodes go. The last will die as the first did - collapsing on the floor of the TARDIS from extreme old age and sheer exhaustion.

I do think that John Hurt plays the real 9th incarnation, but no way will the series end after next doctor. The BBC wouldn't stick to an old idea from the series if it prevents it continiung, and anyway there are ways around the 13 lives limit, the Time Lords gave The Master a new set.
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Old May 19 2013, 08:49 PM   #207
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Eliczo wrote: View Post
The Other is a legendary figure in Time Lord History. During era of the 7th Doctor, the script editor Andrew Cartmel felt that all the mystery of the character had gone and sought to reintroduce some mystery. The Cartmel Masterplan, it was dubbed later on by fanon.

There were several hints to to the fact that there was more to the Doctor then just another Time Lord, including a wonderful line "Remembrance of the Daleks" where the 7th Doctor is talking about the Hand of Omega, and mentions "And didn't we have problems with the prototype."

Basically the Other was part of a Triumvirate consisting of him, Rassilon & Omega.


Thanks!


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Old May 19 2013, 08:56 PM   #208
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Pre-Hartnell Doctor - The John Hurt Doctor could have been an awful person, and decided/promised to reform himself, and dubbed himself The Doctor in accordance with that Promise. Then, he went on to betray that promise, until he Regenerated in Hartnell-Doctor.

Pre-Pertwee Doctor - We never saw Troughton become Pertwee, maybe he became Hurt and was even more bitter then Pertwee's Doctor was.

And of Course the Post-McGann/Pre-Eccelston Doctor theories, when have already been delved into.

I think any of these could be made to work well, I don't really like the idea of a Future Doctor 11 hasn't met yet, though. If it was The Valleyard or something like that, that would be OK since The Doctor already has had dealings with him, despite him being a Future incarnation

About killing him after 13 Incarnations, nah...They'll either ignore it, let the SJA "537 Lives" (or however many it was) line explain it, or come up with a story to give him more life(s)
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Old May 19 2013, 09:05 PM   #209
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

SeerSGB wrote: View Post
lennier1 wrote: View Post
Well, considering how deep that rule is burnt into the myth among fans, they'll probably address it and let the writers bullshit their way out of that corner.
Well River did give up all her regenerations to save the Doctor in "Let's Kill Hitler". That's likely a extra 9 or 10 lives right there.
It can't be a straightforward transfer of regens, though, or he'd give them right back. Presumably he would be giving her fewer regenerations than he'd be losing. Therefore it makes sense that he didn't receive a whole lot of regens from her, and possibly not even a whole one.
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Old May 19 2013, 09:10 PM   #210
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Sindatur wrote: View Post
Pre-Hartnell Doctor - The John Hurt Doctor could have been an awful person, and decided/promised to reform himself, and dubbed himself The Doctor in accordance with that Promise. Then, he went on to betray that promise, until he Regenerated in Hartnell-Doctor.
Let's say you set off on a grand adventure and decide that your new name is Alfred Bestmountfut but on your adventure you are overcome with emotion and have sex with the Queen's dog. it's your most shameful secret that you are trying to cover up, that you want no-one to discover and you try to make amends for - in your new guise you call yourself.... Alfred Bestmountful.

That's the other reason it doesn't work if he was used before Hartnell and it does between Doctors - because he is the Doctor nobody knows by the name The Doctor so it can be a big event but nobody knows that it was the doctor responsible - which is also why I think it is not the time-war but something just after.
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