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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 17 2013, 08:28 AM   #91
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Saucer Separation

Takeru wrote: View Post
xvicente wrote: View Post
That's no warp engine, according to Andrew Probert:

source: http://www.trekplace.com/ap2005int01.html

Aft saucer module of Enterprise-D

Probert: They were just supposed to be more windows. Probably lounges of some sort, if I recall, but again, what you're seeing are windows that are broken up. I think that there were larger windows initially.
Doesn't matter, he's not an authority on what is what, as long as it's not mentioned on screen it's just a glowy thing on the saucer that could be a warp drive.
In what way is Andrew Probert not an authority on what is what, on the Enterprise-D?
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Old May 17 2013, 08:31 AM   #92
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Re: Saucer Separation

Well, Probert is the ultimate authority on what was intended when these features were designed. Practical execution is another matter (the people who lit the windows are the authorities on the issue of the "warp glow" and what was intended by it, and the writers are the authorities on what the saucer can do, scriptwise), and ultimately even this is subservient to the impression that the audience gets. Naturally, the audience is the authority on that final issue.

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Old May 17 2013, 08:59 AM   #93
Takeru
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Re: Saucer Separation

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
In what way is Andrew Probert not an authority on what is what, on the Enterprise-D?
In the way that the Enterprise-D is not real, Andrew Probert didn't design a spaceship, he designed the shape of a thing that everyone pretends is a spaceship. His intentions of what is what are just that, intentions. He intended the saucer rim to be one deck for example but we all know that the show made it two decks, what ends up on screen counts, everything else does not.

What he intended to be windows was never identified as such on the show, that means it's just an unidentified glowy thing on the saucer, there's no proof that it's not a warp drive.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:41 AM   #94
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Re: Saucer Separation

That doesn't mean he's not an authority. What it means is that he's not the sole authority, which of course makes sense, because TNG was a collaboration.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:34 PM   #95
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Re: Saucer Separation

And who can say a warp engine has to glow blue?

Did anyone watch Rambo III?
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Old May 17 2013, 10:07 PM   #96
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Re: Saucer Separation

I have wondered and wondered about those blue squares for years. Somehow a not-completely-canon explanation that they are windows is not satisfying at all.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:35 AM   #97
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Re: Saucer Separation

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
I have wondered and wondered about those blue squares for years. Somehow a not-completely-canon explanation that they are windows is not satisfying at all.
Sometimes a blue light is only a blue light.
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Old May 18 2013, 07:57 AM   #98
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Re: Saucer Separation

xvicente wrote: View Post
Sometimes a blue light is only a blue light.
And sometimes it's a warp drive.
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Old May 18 2013, 08:00 AM   #99
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Re: Saucer Separation

I've figured it out! It's the dolphin tank! They'd want windows, right?
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Old May 18 2013, 09:48 AM   #100
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Re: Saucer Separation

Ah so the Dolphins are the power behind the Federation and Section 31! I guess the Whale Probe was sent to bring humanity into line!
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Old May 19 2013, 05:44 PM   #101
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Re: Saucer Separation

DonIago wrote: View Post
While the saucer having the ability to cruise at warp would resolve some dangling episode inconsistencies, I don't believe it was the writers' intention that the saucer have warp drive ...
At this point you then have to come up with a reason for the saucer NOT to be equipped with a warp drive of some capacity.

In the Star Trek universe, every vessel above the size of a work-bee gets to have a warp drive. A two person shuttle pod is so equipped. What possible reason could there be for the designers of the saucer to make the conscious decision to exclude a warp drive? I'm not talking about some monster warp nine plus propulsion, but something in the warp three or four realm. Starfleet does seem to favor external nacelles, however they are apparently not a requirement, many of the non-Starfleet ships we see do not have external nacelles. As a emergency only propulsion, enclosing a warp drive internally in the area aft of the main shuttle bay may have been deemed sufficient.

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The same thing applies to lifeboats in general. They're not really intended to be starships in their own right, but emergency craft for survivors/evacuees until a rescue ship arrives.
As noted above, something the size of a two person shuttlepods has a warp drive.

It would seem to me, given missions of long range exploration out in the Federation's "boonies" and beyond, that the Enterprise's lifeboats would all have a warp drive. Depending on where the abandoning of the ship occurred, rescue might be years in the future.

If the first can have a warp drive ... why not the second?



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Old May 19 2013, 07:19 PM   #102
C.E. Evans
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Re: Saucer Separation

T'Girl wrote: View Post
DonIago wrote: View Post
While the saucer having the ability to cruise at warp would resolve some dangling episode inconsistencies, I don't believe it was the writers' intention that the saucer have warp drive ...
At this point you then have to come up with a reason for the saucer NOT to be equipped with a warp drive of some capacity.

In the Star Trek universe, every vessel above the size of a work-bee gets to have a warp drive. A two person shuttle pod is so equipped. What possible reason could there be for the designers of the saucer to make the conscious decision to exclude a warp drive? I'm not talking about some monster warp nine plus propulsion, but something in the warp three or four realm. Starfleet does seem to favor external nacelles, however they are apparently not a requirement, many of the non-Starfleet ships we see do not have external nacelles. As a emergency only propulsion, enclosing a warp drive internally in the area aft of the main shuttle bay may have been deemed sufficient.

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The same thing applies to lifeboats in general. They're not really intended to be starships in their own right, but emergency craft for survivors/evacuees until a rescue ship arrives.
As noted above, something the size of a two person shuttlepods has a warp drive.

It would seem to me, given missions of long range exploration out in the Federation's "boonies" and beyond, that the Enterprise's lifeboats would all have a warp drive. Depending on where the abandoning of the ship occurred, rescue might be years in the future.

If the first can have a warp drive ... why not the second?
Because an escape pod isn't a shuttlecraft. Not all vehicles have the same capabilities, regardless if some are nearly the same size. If anything, most of an escape pod's systems would be dedicated to the long-term survival of its refugees. The more systems you dedicate away from that, the less effective it becomes as an escape pod.
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Old May 20 2013, 12:27 PM   #103
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Re: Saucer Separation

It should be noted that there are no episodes of TNG or DS9 that would give a craft designated "shuttlepod" or portrayed by the Type 15 or Type 18 miniatures (or the joint prop) warp capacity.

That is, while sometimes these craft travel "on their own", they are never credited with interstellar journeys, merely with assorted arrivals or departures; they are never stated to be at warp; they are never shown to be at warp; and the nacelles of Type 15 are actually explicated as impulse engines in a readable graphic in "Descent", verifying for a rare once the designers' intent.

We could deduce, then, that the difference between a shuttle and a shuttlepod lies in the latter's inability to accommodate warp engines. Impulse engines, yes. Subspace engines, very definitely (the "Descent" graphic and "Destiny" dialogue establish the pods to have the ability to generate subspace fields with their engines). But not warp engines.

It might be technologically flat out impossible to equip a lifepod with warp drive, then. Or then merely challenging and expensive and not worth the hassle. The interiors of Type 15 and Type 18 suggest that "impulse nacelles" or "impulse cowlings" are relatively standalone pieces of hardware, not taking up further room inside the hull with their subsystems or whatnot, so those could perhaps be bolted onto lifepods, too. But warp engines might be a different matter, requiring at least the underfloor or back compartment volumes supposedly available in the shuttlecraft. The difference in size isn't all that great, though, so most probably it's a matter of warp engines simply being way too "expensive" (in terms of materials or power costs or something like that) to be used willy-nilly on any small craft.

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Old May 22 2013, 02:22 AM   #104
Lee Enfield
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Re: Saucer Separation

I want to add, that the sheer volume and size of the saucer section might be the reason it has no warp drive.
To generate a warp field (big enough to transport that mass) the whole warp system woud certainly have to have a drive, comparable to that of the battle section. That means less space on the saucer for labs asf.
So, actually, it could be easier to generate a warp field around a smaller object - because it's mass-dependant.

...And remember, that the warp nacelles (almost?) always reflect the size of the the ship to carry?!
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Old May 22 2013, 03:14 AM   #105
CorporalCaptain
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Re: Saucer Separation

Lee Enfield wrote: View Post
I want to add, that the sheer volume and size of the saucer section might be the reason it has no warp drive.
To generate a warp field (big enough to transport that mass) the whole warp system woud certainly have to have a drive, comparable to that of the battle section. That means less space on the saucer for labs asf.
So, actually, it could be easier to generate a warp field around a smaller object - because it's mass-dependant.

...And remember, that the warp nacelles (almost?) always reflect the size of the the ship to carry?!
Ah, that's a good point.
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