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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "The Name Of The Doctor"
Merlin 111 72.08%
Radagast the brown 30 19.48%
Barty crouch jr 5 3.25%
Destro 5 3.25%
Malekith 3 1.95%
Voters: 154. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 19 2013, 09:44 AM   #151
JoeZhang
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Surely the name of the Doctor is the Doctor.

Maybe he has more than one name.
He does but one that means more to us, we thought we were dealing with Eleven but we were dealing with Twelve - that is the secret to the Doctor's name.
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Old May 19 2013, 10:28 AM   #152
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Shouldn't Clara also know the Doctor's name by the time they were at the gates? She knew it at the end of Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS. A scuffle between her and River was in order.
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Old May 19 2013, 10:37 AM   #153
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Surely the name of the Doctor is the Doctor.
I've always considered his race to treat names similar to how some human cultures do.
In many cultures, a child is born with a name given by its parents and once the child reaches adulthood it chooses a new name as a sign that a new chapter in life has begun and the child of the old days has chosen its own path.
Some of the other names in this episode are ones he was given by others and we all know who/what the Valeyard is.
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Old May 19 2013, 11:00 AM   #154
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

^We know the Master picked that name as well.
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Old May 19 2013, 11:04 AM   #155
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

lennier1 wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Surely the name of the Doctor is the Doctor.
I've always considered his race to treat names similar to how some human cultures do.
In many cultures, a child is born with a name given by its parents and once the child reaches adulthood it chooses a new name as a sign that a new chapter in life has begun and the child of the old days has chosen its own path.
Some of the other names in this episode are ones he was given by others and we all know who/what the Valeyard is.
I wonder if when the Doctor looked into the untempered schism when he was a child if he saw his future and what he'd do and chose the name "Doctor" as a promise not to become that person. Hence the rage at the regeneration that "Broke the promise" and what he did not being in the "Name of the doctor".
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Old May 19 2013, 11:21 AM   #156
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

How well was he keeping that promise while he was strangling Peri?

"Timelord Victorious" anyone?
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Old May 19 2013, 11:23 AM   #157
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
How well was he keeping that promise while he was strangling Peri?

"Timelord Victorious" anyone?
Yes?
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Old May 19 2013, 11:43 AM   #158
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
How well was he keeping that promise while he was strangling Peri?

"Timelord Victorious" anyone?
Yeah, but it's Peri so we give him a by on that one.
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Old May 19 2013, 11:54 AM   #159
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Timelord_Victorious wrote: View Post

Yes?
Sorry. Wrong number.

I really haven't been following the spoilers.

John was tapped because someone fumbled Chris?

That just seems desperate.
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Old May 19 2013, 11:59 AM   #160
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

People have complained all this season that the arc wasn't as strong as previous seasons. There's a certain truth to that, but I think the difference is actually just that the arc wasn't as obvious this season.

The "crack in time" and "who is River" arcs were very in-your-face, whereas the arc this season has been much subtler, constructed not out of plot hints and twists, but out of repeated themes and concepts and motifs.

Which, actually, is exactly how RTD used to do it.

Really, the solution to the Impossible Girl problem was basically Bad Wolf mark II. The only difference is that Eleven was aware of the arc's existence while Nine wasn't.

The first idea we were introduced to back in "Asylum of the Daleks" was that in the wake of last season, the Doctor had gone around removing himself from the history books. He left it so that no-one knew who he was. That was brought up again in "Dinosaurs" and "Angels." What does the GI do in "Name"? He goes to remove the Doctor from the history books, just taking it a step further by deleting all the good things he did, not just his name.

The Doctor visiting his own grave was a big plot point in "Name"... just as it was when Amy and Rory visited their own grave in "Angels," and present-Clara did at the end of "The Snowman." Clara got freaked out in "Hide" at the thought that her own dead body was buried somewhere in the Earth when the Doctor took her through her planet's lifetime. The Doctor himself does the same in "Name."

The leaf was introduced in "Akhaten" as the embodiment of all of Clara's life potential. It was powerful enough to subdue a god. Now we know why - it contained all of the Doctor's timeline and infinite lives, and was used at the end of "Name" to give Clara her identity back.

Echoes and reflections have been a consistent motif. The GI created digital echoes of people in "Bells." The time-travelling woman had been echoing through all of Earth's history in "Hide," connected to one particular person. The Doctor fights a reflection of himself in "Silver." The Tardis threw up echoes of itself to protect itself in "Journey." And of course the biggest echo of all - Clara, echoing all through the Doctor's timeline. Living and dying, living and dying... just like the Doctor.

There were constant references to previous Doctors throughout the season, especially the second half. He mentions earlier Dalek encounters in "Asylum." The GI itself in "Snowmen" and "Bells" is a Second Doctor villain. He mentions a granddaughter in "Akhaten" - a First Doctor reference. Ice Warriors are a Third Doctor villain, and "Hide" was basically a Third Doctor story. "Journey" contains soundbites and old props from previous Doctors. The 'gobby Australian' namecheck in "Crimson" is a Fifth Doctor reference. The Cyber-Planner-Doctor in "Silver" repeats Nine's and Ten's catchphrases. All of this reminding us of previous Doctors was obviously there to set us up for the revelation of a hidden Doctor no-one knows about here in "Name."

All of these things come together in the season finale, just much more subtly than the obvious "who is Clara" question.

.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:42 PM   #161
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Question: Which original stories were the archival shots that Clara was retconned into taken from? The only one I know for sure is Pertwee Driving Bessie in "The Five Doctors".
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Old May 19 2013, 12:56 PM   #162
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Great, great episode. My jaw dropped to the ground when we actually saw The First Doctor (colorized!) and Susan run off with the TARDIS at the beginning of the episode. While I found the splicing of Clara into old footage jarring the first time around, I quite liked the sequence when we saw it again at the end because it depicts her in the footage quality of that time period (although colorized for The First Doctor).

Richard E. Grant was great in his reprisal of the Great Intelligence, and while it's a shame we didn't get the Yeti, I thought the Whisper Men were effectively creepy and I liked the explanation of why they were dressed up as Victorian gentlemen in wintertime (as oppose to just "because it looks cool").

I also loved the clever workaround on hearing The Doctor's name (really, anyone who actually thought we would learn his name were fooling themselves) and it's interesting to note that Clara now knows his name (even if hear memory of reading it in The History of the Time War didn't return).

Lastly, I loved the closure we got to River Song's character. While I'm sure we haven't seen the last of Alex Kingston, this provided some wonderful book ending to "Forest of the Dead" and further development of The Doctor/River Song relationship.

Even though I guessed it was coming, I grinned like a bloody fool at the sight of John Hurt as The Doctor. Of course, everyone is going to argue for the next six months which Doctor John Hurt is. Is he a pre-Hartnell a la The Brain of Morbius Doctor? Is he The Ninth Doctor that ended the Time War and regenerated into Christopher Eccleston? Is he The Valeyard? Is he someone other past/future/amalgamation incarnation? It's going to be a long six months.

I'm looking forward to the 50th anniversary more than I was before but I'm still looking forward to Big Finish's The Light at the End more.
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Old May 19 2013, 01:00 PM   #163
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Mitty wrote: View Post
Question: Which original stories were the archival shots that Clara was retconned into taken from? The only one I know for sure is Pertwee Driving Bessie in "The Five Doctors".
First Doctor: Not sure.
Second Doctor: The Five Doctors.
Fourth Doctor: The Invasion of Time.
Fifth Doctor: I'm not sure but I want to say either Four to Doomsday or Resurrection of the Daleks.
Seventh Doctor: Dragonfire.
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Old May 19 2013, 01:17 PM   #164
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
People have complained all this season that the arc wasn't as strong as previous seasons. There's a certain truth to that, but I think the difference is actually just that the arc wasn't as obvious this season.

The "crack in time" and "who is River" arcs were very in-your-face, whereas the arc this season has been much subtler, constructed not out of plot hints and twists, but out of repeated themes and concepts and motifs.

Which, actually, is exactly how RTD used to do it.

Really, the solution to the Impossible Girl problem was basically Bad Wolf mark II. The only difference is that Eleven was aware of the arc's existence while Nine wasn't.

The first idea we were introduced to back in "Asylum of the Daleks" was that in the wake of last season, the Doctor had gone around removing himself from the history books. He left it so that no-one knew who he was. That was brought up again in "Dinosaurs" and "Angels." What does the GI do in "Name"? He goes to remove the Doctor from the history books, just taking it a step further by deleting all the good things he did, not just his name.

The Doctor visiting his own grave was a big plot point in "Name"... just as it was when Amy and Rory visited their own grave in "Angels," and present-Clara did at the end of "The Snowman." Clara got freaked out in "Hide" at the thought that her own dead body was buried somewhere in the Earth when the Doctor took her through her planet's lifetime. The Doctor himself does the same in "Name."

The leaf was introduced in "Akhaten" as the embodiment of all of Clara's life potential. It was powerful enough to subdue a god. Now we know why - it contained all of the Doctor's timeline and infinite lives, and was used at the end of "Name" to give Clara her identity back.

Echoes and reflections have been a consistent motif. The GI created digital echoes of people in "Bells." The time-travelling woman had been echoing through all of Earth's history in "Hide," connected to one particular person. The Doctor fights a reflection of himself in "Silver." The Tardis threw up echoes of itself to protect itself in "Journey." And of course the biggest echo of all - Clara, echoing all through the Doctor's timeline. Living and dying, living and dying... just like the Doctor.

There were constant references to previous Doctors throughout the season, especially the second half. He mentions earlier Dalek encounters in "Asylum." The GI itself in "Snowmen" and "Bells" is a Second Doctor villain. He mentions a granddaughter in "Akhaten" - a First Doctor reference. Ice Warriors are a Third Doctor villain, and "Hide" was basically a Third Doctor story. "Journey" contains soundbites and old props from previous Doctors. The 'gobby Australian' namecheck in "Crimson" is a Fifth Doctor reference. The Cyber-Planner-Doctor in "Silver" repeats Nine's and Ten's catchphrases. All of this reminding us of previous Doctors was obviously there to set us up for the revelation of a hidden Doctor no-one knows about here in "Name."

All of these things come together in the season finale, just much more subtly than the obvious "who is Clara" question.

.

"Brave Heart, Clara"
was a throw back to "Brave Heart, Tegan" also from the 5th Dcotor.
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Old May 19 2013, 01:27 PM   #165
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Re: 7X13 The Name Of The Doctor(Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Emh wrote: View Post
Mitty wrote: View Post
Question: Which original stories were the archival shots that Clara was retconned into taken from? The only one I know for sure is Pertwee Driving Bessie in "The Five Doctors".
First Doctor: Not sure.
Second Doctor: The Five Doctors.
Fourth Doctor: The Invasion of Time.
Fifth Doctor: I'm not sure but I want to say either Four to Doomsday or Resurrection of the Daleks.
Seventh Doctor: Dragonfire.
First- The Aztecs, though his line is from The Web Planet
Second- The Five Doctors
Third- The Five Doctors
Fourth- Invasion Of Time
Fifth- Arc Of Infinity
Sixth- none, it was an extra wearing the costume
Seventh- Dragonfire
Eightth- None, it was an extra wearing the costume
Ninth- None, it was an extra wearing the costume
Tenth- Silence In The Library
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