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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old May 19 2013, 03:24 AM   #31
od0_ital
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

^

That's just how the shuttles look in nuTrek.
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Old May 19 2013, 07:17 AM   #32
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Yorkshire Niner wrote: View Post
Totally agree. As soon as Section 31 was mentioned (by that racist terrorist guy from ENT, weirdly enough!) I was so jazzed. "Fantastic!" I thought, "Abrams has made a Section 31 movie! At last!" That positivity and optimism carried right on upto the moment when John Harrison did his big identity reveal (after having the Enterprise's hairdresser sort him out in the ship's brig) and all my hopes for a genuinely creative and thought-provoking movie crumbled faster than Abrams' Vulcan.

For the record, I would argue that the existence of Section 31 is part of what makes (proper) Trek great - the shades of grey. Odo summed it up better than I could - in a universe where the Tal Shiar and the Obsidian Order exist, it is illogical to assume that the UFP wouldn't have something equally shady and nefarious.
DarKush wrote: View Post
I totally agree. Because when the big moment came I think the film started going off the rails for me. It was like the writers just couldn't contain the inner fanboys inside them and just had to go there. Perhaps not because they thought they could do it better but maybe just to put their own spin on it or to write a character they probably grew up wanting to play with.

But that was totally unnecessary really for the story they were telling. Harrison was compelling enough. His motivation didn't even have to change. And if Harrison had been left alone I don't think the film would've veered (maybe) into a weak imitation of superior works.
I'm not a huge S31 fan, but like Yorkshire Niner it added a great shade of grey to the Federation, that they will do what is needed to ensure their security. But a S31 spy-thriller would have been so much better.

From Harrison's reveal the film went down hill, then when they were just repeating the script from TWOK it plummetted.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:50 PM   #33
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

I am a fan of Section 31. I like the shades of gray aspect a lot. I don't think Section 31 has always been depicted as the most competent organization though, and Into Darkness at least keeps that part going.
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Old May 19 2013, 02:46 PM   #34
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
BTW, are we supposed to assume that the admiral was actually a member of Section 31 himself? He mostly came off as your average Insane Admiral TM, but actively trying to start a war because you believe it's inevitable but you've got genetically engineered supermen on your side so you'll win anyway does kind of sound like a S31 thing. And the secret base and secret starship with its non-official Starfleet uniforms also fits.
I got the impression that post-Vulcan he'd turned some areas of Section 31 into his own little fiefdom to prepare for the oncoming war, since they shared the same goals, roughly.


I'd argue that ID is still a Section 31 film, but a S31 film shared with 'John Harrison'. Lets be honest, Kirk's trapped between the Machinations of the two, and it's only because its the Enterprise that neither win.
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Old May 20 2013, 05:41 PM   #35
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

DarKush wrote: View Post
I am a fan of Section 31. I like the shades of gray aspect a lot. I don't think Section 31 has always been depicted as the most competent organization though, and Into Darkness at least keeps that part going.
Well, if you just stick to DS9, Section 31 is pretty competent. Their only failure happens when Bashir and O'Brien capture Sloan and enter his mind to get the cure to the Changeling virus.
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Old May 21 2013, 04:05 PM   #36
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
From Harrison's reveal the film went down hill, then when they were just repeating the script from TWOK it plummetted.
Totally agree. I don't know if that TWOK scene was an attempt by Bad Robot's script monkeys to 'throw a bone' to us traditional Trekkies but I just felt insulted by it.
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Old May 21 2013, 04:09 PM   #37
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

I literally laughed out loud in the theater the first time i saw it.
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Old May 21 2013, 04:33 PM   #38
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

toughlittleship wrote: View Post
Section 31 in the film isn't quite the same as it was in DS9 - it seemed to be more of a militia than a black ops organization.
They seemed more like a special research branch tasked with developing experimental prototypes, long range stealth torpedoes and portable Transwarp Transporter devices to name 2.

If I had to have an explanation for the change, what ever the reason be it the destruction of the Kelvin or Vulcan, S31 became more 'public' at least within Starfleet in a way that the secretive SAS became public knowledge. The public face is probably just the beginning with the R&D.

Hide in plain site and all, better to have a cover for some of their goings on plus some of what they come up with can be fielded to improve the general fleet.
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Old May 21 2013, 07:36 PM   #39
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

Yorkshire Niner wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
From Harrison's reveal the film went down hill, then when they were just repeating the script from TWOK it plummetted.
Totally agree. I don't know if that TWOK scene was an attempt by Bad Robot's script monkeys to 'throw a bone' to us traditional Trekkies but I just felt insulted by it.
So it's not just me then. I thought I was the only one who felt that way. I couldn't stop face-palming in the theater. It's too bad, too, because for the most part I loved the first half of the film. But toward the end they went totally overboard with their version of a "Valentine to Trek fans." I don't mind throwing a quote in here and there, but there was way too much in the last half of the film. I just couldn't recover any positive feelings after

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Old May 22 2013, 02:23 PM   #40
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

dub wrote: View Post
Yorkshire Niner wrote: View Post
Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
From Harrison's reveal the film went down hill, then when they were just repeating the script from TWOK it plummetted.
Totally agree. I don't know if that TWOK scene was an attempt by Bad Robot's script monkeys to 'throw a bone' to us traditional Trekkies but I just felt insulted by it.
So it's not just me then. I thought I was the only one who felt that way. I couldn't stop face-palming in the theater. It's too bad, too, because for the most part I loved the first half of the film. But toward the end they went totally overboard with their version of a "Valentine to Trek fans." I don't mind throwing a quote in here and there, but there was way too much in the last half of the film. I just couldn't recover any positive feelings after
After all Jar Jar's efforts to build a new timeline so that he and his script-bots weren't beholding to any of that nasty continuity nonsense (that was sarcasm, by the way), lifting an entire scene from a 30 year old (superior) film smacked of nothing less than plagiarism.
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Old May 24 2013, 11:42 PM   #41
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

I started cringing from "You'd better get down here".

I've seen it for a second time and I am now regrettably certain of my initial appraisal - a lacking, vacuous waste of an opportunity. I'd rather say so here than in the NuTrek forum as any deviation from the Abrams bandwagon has the usual posse jumping up and down and - frankly - I'm not impressed. As I said, I had every expectation of enjoying this movie and I have given it more than a fair chance.

Just an aside: Fans have invested a lot of time from pre-production to the premiere of STiD. Bearing this in mind, I think in the short run we can be a lot more forgiving of a film's faults. However, I wouldn't mind predicting in the long run that this film will not stand the test of time, and the standards and scrutiny people would normally apply will resurface.
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Old May 25 2013, 01:16 AM   #42
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Re: Into Darkness DS9 references (SPOILERS)

StarMan wrote: View Post
I started cringing from "You'd better get down here".

I've seen it for a second time and I am now regrettably certain of my initial appraisal - a lacking, vacuous waste of an opportunity. I'd rather say so here than in the NuTrek forum as any deviation from the Abrams bandwagon has the usual posse jumping up and down and - frankly - I'm not impressed. As I said, I had every expectation of enjoying this movie and I have given it more than a fair chance.

Just an aside: Fans have invested a lot of time from pre-production to the premiere of STiD. Bearing this in mind, I think in the short run we can be a lot more forgiving of a film's faults. However, I wouldn't mind predicting in the long run that this film will not stand the test of time, and the standards and scrutiny people would normally apply will resurface.
Yeah... they reboot the series in the first movie(yes, it's a reboot the flimsy tie in to the regular universe is just an attempt to appease the fans and "validate" it still) then the second one... honestly, I could picture a fanfiction of this one... let's have Kirk and Spock switch places and Khan works for Section 31... ooh ooh and a GIANT BLACK SPACESHIP named the USS Evil Villain Flagship... oh and let's put some Klingons in there as a filler, and we'll keep the bad guy in stasis in case we want to use him in the next chapter!

It's a fun action flick, but... yeah still lacks the larger than life Trekness that was present in TNG, DS9 and the rest.
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