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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 18 2013, 08:44 PM   #31
sj4iy
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

Cadet49 wrote: View Post
I think, if they had to do this scene, it would have been more effective if
I disagree, and I think it would have been more controversial than how they did it. I like the echoes of that scene without flat-out copying it. It also wouldn't have made sense, because Kirk already saved Spock in the film, and Spock couldn't understand why until he was in the same situation as Kirk.
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Old May 18 2013, 09:36 PM   #32
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

A case could be made that Spock has lost so much already that the loss of another person close to him was his breaking point. Even though this crew has only been together presumably a year, that's long enough for Kirk and Spock to have forged a bond even if the parameters of it are still be defined by both.
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Old May 18 2013, 09:52 PM   #33
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
A case could be made that Spock has lost so much already that the loss of another person close to him was his breaking point.
Good point.
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Old May 18 2013, 10:55 PM   #34
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

Didn't work for me. I still get choked up when I see that scene in TWOK. But these guys are not friends. At least not at that level. Now, Pike and Kirk makes sense in this movie. That's why I thought it would mean more if Pike died in there or wound up like we see him in TOS.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:06 PM   #35
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Didn't work for me. I still get choked up when I see that scene in TWOK. But these guys are not friends. At least not at that level. Now, Pike and Kirk makes sense in this movie. That's why I thought it would mean more if Pike died in there or wound up like we see him in TOS.
You couldn't tell how close they were during this movie? Many one-off movies manage to move two characters close together without even having the advantage of a tv series- it doesn't mean that those movies can't have emotional death scenes just because they've only been together for that one movie. We see in the very beginning with Kirk wouldn't allow Spock to die by risking his ship to save him that they were best friends. After that, Spock was concerned about Kirk and trying to talk him into doing the right thing, and finally convinces him. I don't think anyone else does that.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:11 PM   #36
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

sj4iy wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Didn't work for me. I still get choked up when I see that scene in TWOK. But these guys are not friends. At least not at that level. Now, Pike and Kirk makes sense in this movie. That's why I thought it would mean more if Pike died in there or wound up like we see him in TOS.
You couldn't tell how close they were during this movie? Many one-off movies manage to move two characters close together without even having the advantage of a tv series- it doesn't mean that those movies can't have emotional death scenes just because they've only been together for that one movie. We see in the very beginning with Kirk wouldn't allow Spock to die by risking his ship to save him that they were best friends. After that, Spock was concerned about Kirk and trying to talk him into doing the right thing, and finally convinces him. I don't think anyone else does that.
Yeah, I could see their friendship easily, and how deep it went. Just watching visual cues, you could pick up on it.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:11 PM   #37
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

sj4iy wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Didn't work for me. I still get choked up when I see that scene in TWOK. But these guys are not friends. At least not at that level. Now, Pike and Kirk makes sense in this movie. That's why I thought it would mean more if Pike died in there or wound up like we see him in TOS.
You couldn't tell how close they were during this movie? Many one-off movies manage to move two characters close together without even having the advantage of a tv series- it doesn't mean that those movies can't have emotional death scenes just because they've only been together for that one movie. We see in the very beginning with Kirk wouldn't allow Spock to die by risking his ship to save him that they were best friends. After that, Spock was concerned about Kirk and trying to talk him into doing the right thing, and finally convinces him. I don't think anyone else does that.
Kirk broke the Prime Directive to save Spock, cause he thought the rules don't apply to him. That's not friendship. He just didn't want to lose anyone, cause he never wants to lose. He couldn't even admit to Pike he got his butt kicked in the first film.

Spock was doing his job as first officer. He could clearly see Kirk was blinded by anger and was going to make the mistake of killing Harrison against regs.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:24 PM   #38
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Kirk broke the Prime Directive to save Spock, cause he thought the rules don't apply to him. That's not friendship. He just didn't want to lose anyone, cause he never wants to lose. He couldn't even admit to Pike he got his butt kicked in the first film.

Spock was doing his job as first officer. He could clearly see Kirk was blinded by anger and was going to make the mistake of killing Harrison against regs.
I would recommend a second viewing of the movie, because what you're talking about is addressed by the movie itself.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:28 PM   #39
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

J. Allen wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Kirk broke the Prime Directive to save Spock, cause he thought the rules don't apply to him. That's not friendship. He just didn't want to lose anyone, cause he never wants to lose. He couldn't even admit to Pike he got his butt kicked in the first film.

Spock was doing his job as first officer. He could clearly see Kirk was blinded by anger and was going to make the mistake of killing Harrison against regs.
I would recommend a second viewing of the movie, because what you're talking about is addressed by the movie itself.
No. This movie will have to attract all the money from the precious newbies and those who like the new version. I'm done.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:41 PM   #40
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

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Kirk broke the Prime Directive to save Spock, cause he thought the rules don't apply to him. That's not friendship. He just didn't want to lose anyone, cause he never wants to lose. He couldn't even admit to Pike he got his butt kicked in the first film.

Spock was doing his job as first officer. He could clearly see Kirk was blinded by anger and was going to make the mistake of killing Harrison against regs.
I would recommend a second viewing of the movie, because what you're talking about is addressed by the movie itself.
No. This movie will have to attract all the money from the precious newbies and those who like the new version. I'm done.
Kirk even SAYS he did it because Spock was his friend and is upset during the movie when Spock doesn't realize it. Spock repeatedly tries to warn Kirk not to trust Khan, and the moment Kirk leaves the ship, he even contacts Spock Prime to find out how to defeat Khan. Don't spend your money if you don't want to, but I'm not a newbie. I am also not married to the original canon so much that I can't stand to see a valid change to the story and appreciate it.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:49 PM   #41
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

If it was a humorous parody, it worked great. As a dramatic scene, it failed badly. It was the biggest negative of the film for me. It took me right out of it, and meant that during what should have been the film's most poignant and emotional scene. Was trying hard not to laugh at the ridiculousness of it.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:48 AM   #42
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

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When did "iconic" come to mean "it's familiar and we like it a lot?"
Try googling "iconic Star Trek moments" or "top 10 Star Trek moments" sometime.

Here's what I found: ABC: #3, Mania: #1, IGN: #1, Badass Digest: #2, Entertainment Tonight: "most bittersweet scene of the whole franchise"

The only other item that appears on half those lists is "City on the Edge of Forever".

The Death of Spock is the most famous movie in the history of Star Trek -- rightly so.

So, your question is stupid.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:59 AM   #43
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

Wowbagger wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
When did "iconic" come to mean "it's familiar and we like it a lot?"
Try googling "iconic Star Trek moments" or "top 10 Star Trek moments" sometime.

Here's what I found: ABC: #3, Mania: #1, IGN: #1, Badass Digest: #2, Entertainment Tonight: "most bittersweet scene of the whole franchise"

The only other item that appears on half those lists is "City on the Edge of Forever".

The Death of Spock is the most famous movie in the history of Star Trek -- rightly so.

So, your question is stupid.
Your answer doesn't address his question. He was asking when "iconic" came to mean "it's familiar and we like it a lot."

You answered him by showing episodes that were familiar, and that people liked a lot. So you didn't answer his question, you only made his point for him.
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Old May 19 2013, 03:05 AM   #44
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

Last month, the father of a student in my band program passed away (while we had a concert, although the student was rightly at his side). This is my first year at this school. I found out two days later that the father had died. I was devastated. I had to close the door to my office and sit in silence for awhile to cope. I went home that weekend to see my parents just because I was emotionally compromised because of this student's loss.

I've never met the dad. The student isn't coming back to band next year. I hardly know her!

Yet, I was crushed by her loss.

Why? Because she's part of my program. She's family. It's that simple.

Part of the whole message of this movie was the importance of family, especially the family that you acquire outside of your relation. Spock had no family. Kirk had no family. They had the Enterprise and her crew. Kirk's death crushed Spock because he was family. It's that simple.

And I love OS Star Trek. TWOK is my favorite of the movies, all of them. Yet, I bought this scene. I enjoyed this scene. I felt Spock's grief, and I believed it. Quinto nailed, and I totally believed what the writers were conveying through him.

Because it's family. It's that simple.
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Old May 19 2013, 05:06 AM   #45
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Re: What did you think of the... er.. homage scene? (spoilers)

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Obvious spoilers below.

I thought it was great and touching when I first saw the movie. Walking away from the film, I was happy that it turned out to be a fun and energetic homage to star trek II. Then I started actually thinking about it a little.

Seriously... uh... why did he even say that? Why did they reenact that iconic scene motion for motion? He's only known Kirk for a year. The whole damn point of the original scene in Wrath of Khan was to teach Kirk a lesson that its time to stop cheating death and start facing the consequences. This time they barley know each other and the situation is reversed and there is literally no reason for the scene. Its just a reenactment for the sake of a reenactment. There's no soul, no reason, no nothing. Its a lifeless shell. When he says, "Khan!!" its almost like he's INSULTING star trek because of this. Its by far THE worst thing about the entire reboot.

This isn't even a matter of being overcritical, its glaringly obvious and almost painful. Oh yeah... what did you think? What are your opinions? I think I've went on with mine long enough.

So? How long had they known each other in the original series when Kirk disobeyed direct orders from Starfleet to take Spock back to Vulcan?

Getting hung up on how long they've known each other is silly, since by the original canon they were quite close after "only a year". A lot can happen in a year.

The entire scene was great and well acted, but I was pretty sensitive to the shout, I admit. But I've been a Trek fan all my life so I would be. No one in my theater had bad reactions to it.
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