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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 18 2013, 11:49 PM   #2956
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ubik wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post

Whatever dude. Just be thankful they're making something you enjoy as "Star Trek".
You're still trying to frame his definition as subjective. It is Star Trek, in every objective sense of the word. Subjectively, your mileage may vary, but that doesn't change the fact that it is Star Trek.
When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.
...
Though it's still wholly subjective as a form of taste. One can say "I don't like it, it doesn't feel like good Star Trek," and that's fine, but there are people using it to say that it doesn't qualify as Star Trek, because of some nebulous idea of what they think Star Trek is supposed to represent.

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post

I was just ready for it to end long before then. I mean how did they go from lunar orbit to falling to earth so quickly? Not to mention from the Neutral Zone to earth in 3 minutes.
The movie answers these questions.
No it doesn't. They just thought it would be cool to have the ship fall to Earth and be saved.
Yes, it really does. I recommend a second viewing.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:52 PM   #2957
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

do you the vengeance could be salvagable or do you think it was destroyed completely by starfleet?
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Old May 18 2013, 11:54 PM   #2958
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

mattman8907 wrote: View Post
do you the vengeance could be salvagable or do you think it was destroyed completely by starfleet?
I'd scrap it, I think Starfleet is now headed back into exploring, and they don't want it to be a militarized Starfleet, hence sending Kirk on a 5 year explore mission. I'd take the technology learned from that ship, and perhaps integrate it into a new series of ships, but with the goal being defense, not offense.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:55 PM   #2959
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Ubik wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

You're still trying to frame his definition as subjective. It is Star Trek, in every objective sense of the word. Subjectively, your mileage may vary, but that doesn't change the fact that it is Star Trek.
When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.
...
Though it's still wholly subjective as a form of taste. One can say "I don't like it, it doesn't feel like good Star Trek," and that's fine, but there are people using it to say that it doesn't qualify as Star Trek, because of some nebulous idea of what they think Star Trek is supposed to represent.

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

The movie answers these questions.
No it doesn't. They just thought it would be cool to have the ship fall to Earth and be saved.
Yes, it really does. I recommend a second viewing.
If you mean about the other ship having faster warp drive it still doesn't make sense. It's Star Wars, the other side of the galaxy by now, too fast. Now going to the Neutral zone it felt like there was a break to where some time has passed. But but when they go back to earth, the moments come off as only minutes of actual time.

Then both ships appear to be in lunar orbit. But some how the explosion pushed them from there and the ship fell to earth. You do realize it took Apollo 2 days to make the trip? This was just a shock wave then the gravity or Earth.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:56 PM   #2960
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ubik wrote: View Post
When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.
No, what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like the Star Trek I'm used to and I don't like it."

Last edited by Iamnotspock; May 19 2013 at 01:46 AM.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:57 PM   #2961
Ubik
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Ubik wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

You're still trying to frame his definition as subjective. It is Star Trek, in every objective sense of the word. Subjectively, your mileage may vary, but that doesn't change the fact that it is Star Trek.
When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.
...
Though it's still wholly subjective as a form of taste. One can say "I don't like it, it doesn't feel like good Star Trek," and that's fine, but there are people using it to say that it doesn't qualify as Star Trek, because of some nebulous idea of what they think Star Trek is supposed to represent.

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post

The movie answers these questions.
No it doesn't. They just thought it would be cool to have the ship fall to Earth and be saved.
Yes, it really does. I recommend a second viewing.
Well, sure, of course it's subjective, but I honestly do believe there is some level of objectivity when it comes to analyzing a work of art's level of ambition. TOS, TNG, and DS9 all feel very different from one another, but they are all masterful shows in their own right because they all have high ambition to mean something, to say something, to do something new. Voyager and Enterprise were largely failures not due simply to individual tastes - there is a factual lack of originality and ambition in the storytelling of those two shows.

Likewise, Wrath of Khan, Search for Spock, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, and First Contact, to somewhat varying degrees, are all more or less agreed to be the best of the bunch, due to their desire to tell a new and interesting kind of story.

Now, Abrams has changed the "feel" of Star Trek once again, just as the creators did when TNG started, and DS9, and etc - but this time, much like with the creation of Voyager and Enterprise, there is not an equally high level of ambition to do something thematically interesting or risky. He's good at the entertaining, but he lacks the will to risk. God forbid he make a movie that tries to do something we've not seen in Star Trek before on a storytelling level. It's not that he's incapable (I assume.) It's that he doesn't have the interest.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:58 PM   #2962
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Ubik wrote: View Post
When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.
No, what the mean is, "It doesn't feel like the Star Trek I'm used to and I don't like it."
J is right, they are using the "It doesn't feel like Star Trek" to invalidate the movies as being Star Trek at all. Which is factually an incorrect thing to say.

The feel of Star Trek has evolved over time, and a feeling does not validate or invalidate a piece of work as a Star Trek IP.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:58 PM   #2963
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Ubik wrote: View Post
When someone says, "It doesn't feel like Star Trek," what they mean is, "It doesn't feel like GOOD Star Trek," which is a perfectly valid statement.
No, what the mean is, "It doesn't feel like the Star Trek I'm used to and I don't like it."
And there is nothing wrong with that. After all many people who grew up with Star Wars felt like Lucas raped their childhood with the prequels.
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Old May 18 2013, 11:59 PM   #2964
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
If you mean about the other ship having faster warp drive it still doesn't make sense. It's Star Wars, the other side of the galaxy by now, too fast. Now going to the Neutral zone it felt like there was a break to where some time has passed. But but when they go back to earth, the moments come off as only minutes of actual time.
It's called moving at the speed of plot. Star Trek does it all the time. Actually, just about every movie does it to some degree.

Then both ships appear to be in lunar orbit. But some how the explosion pushed them from there and the ship fell to earth. You do realize it took Apollo 2 days to make the trip? This was just a shock wave then the gravity or Earth.
Yes, because these ships are on par with 1960s technology.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:00 AM   #2965
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

p.s. and it was 3 days for Apollo, just to be anal
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Old May 19 2013, 12:02 AM   #2966
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Brent wrote: View Post
p.s. and it was 3 days for Apollo, just to be anal
Now you're being crazy! It would take a covered wagon years to reach the Moon, if it could reach it at all! Surely you can see that this doesn't make sense!
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Old May 19 2013, 12:02 AM   #2967
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
It's called moving at the speed of plot. Star Trek does it all the time. Actually, just about every movie does it to some degree.

Then both ships appear to be in lunar orbit. But some how the explosion pushed them from there and the ship fell to earth. You do realize it took Apollo 2 days to make the trip? This was just a shock wave then the gravity or Earth.
Yes, because these ships are on par with 1960s technology.
All they have to do is film something to show more time has passed.

The ship wasn't moving under its own power from what I saw. It simply started to fall from gravity and the shockwave of the torpedo explosion and moved from the moon to earth in minutes.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:05 AM   #2968
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
It's called moving at the speed of plot. Star Trek does it all the time. Actually, just about every movie does it to some degree.

Then both ships appear to be in lunar orbit. But some how the explosion pushed them from there and the ship fell to earth. You do realize it took Apollo 2 days to make the trip? This was just a shock wave then the gravity or Earth.
Yes, because these ships are on par with 1960s technology.
All they have to do is film something to show more time has passed.

The ship wasn't moving under its own power from what I saw. It simply started to fall from gravity and the shockwave of the torpedo explosion and moved from the moon to earth in minutes.
Powerful fictional future technology there, wouldn't wanna mess with it

I just accept that it is that powerful, since it is a made up thing afterall
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Old May 19 2013, 12:09 AM   #2969
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Brent wrote: View Post
Powerful fictional future technology there, wouldn't wanna mess with it

I just accept that it is that powerful, since it is a made up thing afterall
Well, we're going to have to agree to disagree. For me this ends up like the same stupid Hobus super nova, which travels faster than light, plot device from the last film.
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Old May 19 2013, 12:09 AM   #2970
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
All they have to do is film something to show more time has passed.
Not everything needs spelled out.

The ship wasn't moving under its own power from what I saw. It simply started to fall from gravity and the shockwave of the torpedo explosion and moved from the moon to earth in minutes.
What exactly are you looking for? The movie explains how the Enterprise becomes caught in Earth's gravity, and that they're close enough to be pulled downward.

If you don't like it, blame it on Psi 2000.
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