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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.35%
A 161 21.64%
A- 100 13.44%
B+ 82 11.02%
B 58 7.80%
B- 27 3.63%
C+ 40 5.38%
C 38 5.11%
C- 24 3.23%
D+ 11 1.48%
D 13 1.75%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.84%
Voters: 744. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 18 2013, 06:03 PM   #2881
JarodRussell
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

How would you guys think about the remake of Spock's death scene from TWOK, and had Spock shouted "HAAARRRRRRRRISSSSSOOOOOOOONNN!" after Kirk died, had Harrison NOT been Khan?
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Old May 18 2013, 06:26 PM   #2882
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Seen it. Liked it a lot. Anyhow...

Things I liked:

1. Plot

- made much more sense this time around. I haven't really given much thought to plot holes, but honestly, I don't really give a fuck. It worked.

2. Cast

- Zach Quinto is an AWESOME Spock. That scene in Pike's office ("multiple attitudes") was one of his highpoints. He absolutely nailed it.

- Chris Pine IS Jim Kirk. I loved him four years ago, I loved him even more now. And I'm seeing his Kirk grow, from an arrogant hothead into a respectable leader. Pine is a really good actor and I have no doubt he could pull off any kind of Kirk JJ required of him.

- Ben Cumberbatch - amazing performance, but NOT ENOUGH SCREEN TIME! Honestly, I couldn't give a crap about the fact that he and Ricardo Montalban share exactly zero shit in common (apart from both being human males). His Khan was badass. Even though there was absolutely no need to make him Khan. None at all. He could have been just a random augment from Botany Bay, it really wouldn't matter.

John Khaaarison is the best Trek villain since General Chang... OK, since the Borg Queen. Still, immesurably better than Ru'afo or Shinzon, not to mention Nero.

I especially liked the bit when Uhura confronts those Klingons. Zoe knows her tlhIngan Hol, thats for sure. It was great hearing that language on screen again. Everyone else was good too, especially Pegg and Urban. Peter Weller I liked as well, not to mention Bruce Greenwood. Too bad they killed Pike off. One less great character in the franchise's future.... Alice Eve / Carol Marcus? Meh. To paraphrase Spock - What the fuck was that chick doing there? Yeah, I know, posing in her undies.

3. Fanwank
- Those models on display in Marcus' office were a great sight to see. Pine reciting "space, the final frontier" was a nice touch. Ketha province? Get out of here!

Things I disliked:

1. The concept of transwarp beaming
- the fact that it's the miracoulous uber-amazing super tech is not what bothers me. The problem is that it brings this deus-ex machina feel to the story. Just feels like cheating. Also, this, and the fact that it took Enterprise only 10 seconds to reach Earth from TNZ, makes the galaxy feel rather small. The whole feeling of vastness just goes away.

2. I'm kinda tired now... Fuck this, I loved the movie, lets just leave it at that.
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Old May 18 2013, 06:45 PM   #2883
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

As a bit of a uniform and insignia nut has there been any official details on the rank bars on their dress uniforms?
McCoy seemed to have three bars while Scotty had only two, yet they are both lieutenant commanders and heads of department?
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Old May 18 2013, 06:47 PM   #2884
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Third time today with my Mother-in-Law and six-year old son. They both loved it! I think my little boy was crying when Kirk died, he said his eyes were just wet.

He's been playing Star Trek with his Lego's since we got home.
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Old May 18 2013, 06:47 PM   #2885
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I was very entertained by this movie and definitely want more. I thought it was better than the first one and it feels like it's getting better.

The little nitpicks didn't bother me or affect my overall opinion, but I had tons of them. I'll just share one of them as I really don't even feel like it's worth getting into all of them (and this one is easily countered, really). I just couldn't help get this nagging feeling of Uhura reading from dictionaries in Star Trek VI ("We is condemning food and things") while talking to the Klingons in this movie. My rationale was that the TUC version of Uhura is stupid and inept and never should have been that way, and this version is much more preferable. A friend of mine even went further to say that maybe prime Uhura did know Klingon when she was younger, but had forgotten it or become very rusty in her old age. Our discussions after the movie were so incredibly nerdy and fun!

I gave it a B+. What kept it from being an A was the pace of the movie not really seeming to let up. I definitely could have sat through another hour of this movie (well, had I not had that huge Pepsi) if it meant a more even pace. There were some edits that felt weird too, where it would go from something really serious, to something silly. It felt very much like a typical Hollywood blockbuster in many regards.

Lastly, I thought Cumberbatch was really a great actor, but he didn't really remind me of Khan. I absolutely loved his deviousness, his cold calculation, and his general badass qualities, but he seemed more like a robot for the majority of the time. It felt like he was lacking a certain charisma or something. Like when Kirk told Scotty to shoot Khan on the bridge of the Vengeance, I think we were supposed to feel conflicted about it, but I wasn't really.
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Old May 18 2013, 06:51 PM   #2886
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I just couldn't help get this nagging feeling of Uhura reading from dictionaries in Star Trek VI ("We is condemning food and things") while talking to the Klingons in this movie.
Or she was simply more of an engineer than a linguist in the Prime timeline?
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Old May 18 2013, 06:56 PM   #2887
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

gornsky wrote: View Post

I know there's a lot of love for TWOK. I love it too. But I really think the rose-coloured glasses are pretty firmly in place for most people. TWOK had just as many errors, plot holes, inconsistencies, ideas lifted from past Trek and dodgy acting as STID, if not more so. I mean, I always wondered why when Chekov and Terrell first discover the Botany Bay and Chekov tries to scamper out of the cargo carriers before they are discovered but meet Khan and his followers on the outside -- why didn't they just call the Reliant and say, "Two to beam up. Now!" Khan would have had no way to stop them, and no way to follow them. The answer is, because it suits the script that they don't. If Kurtzman and Orci had written that, we would never hear the end of it.

Isn't that the first thing you learn in Starfleet School, if a bad thing is about to happen to you planet side, beam the hell outta there!
Trust me, back in the 80s the plot holes and inconsistencies of TWOK were discussed by Trek fans ad nauseum. Starting with Space Seed was a season 1 episode and Chekov wasn't even on the ship until season 2.

The internet didn't create fanboys, it just gives them a place to congregate in larger numbers. All the cons had formal and informal discussion groups about the movie, all the zines did as well. There's nothing new under the sun especially when it comes to Trekkies dissecting Trek stories. It is fun and we shall do it forever!!
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Old May 18 2013, 06:56 PM   #2888
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I would recommend watching it again. I mean, if that's how you ultimately feel about it, that's fine, but from what you're saying here, I think you missed a great deal of the story. There is an undercurrent of optimism throughout the movie, and there's a strong moral thread running through it as well.
Yeah, it's possible my expectations were simply getting in the way, and I'll like it more a second time. After years of looking forward to seeing this crew exploring space in a classic, Star Trek-style adventure, I couldn't help but feel let down watching them in what felt like just a... straightforward, run-and-gun military mission to capture a terrorist.

It all just seemed so... humdrum and unimaginative to me.

And please forgive me for saying, but when I see "it has little actual Star Trek," or "it's not Star Trek," I just find that to be so wholly subjective as not to have any meaning whatsoever ascribed to it other than "it's not the movies I'm used to watching," which is, in itself, also wholly subjective.
Well yeah, it's my opinion. Of course it's subjective. But for me, while it contained all the elements of Star Trek, the movie just didn't have enough of that sense of romance and evolved 23rd century nobility I associate with Trek. The only side we really see of Starfleet is the military side, the characters are all thoroughly modern and feel like they could have come from any modern-day action movie, and there's no time to have a thoughful conversation about anything.

That said, you picked Nemesis as your "real Star Trek" comparison and not The Wrath of Khan (also about revenge), which doesn't make sense, because Nemesis was about revenge, uberpowerful technologies, death, and sacrifice as well, with no exploring at all. They even went so far as to break the Prime Directive by driving a dune buggy with advanced technology on a planet with a pre-warp civilization, and firing upon those people when discovered (Kirk, on the other hand in STiD, took every action not to break the Prime Directive until it became life and death). Other than being warm and familiar to you, in what way is it Star Trek, and StiD not?
I'm certainly not arguing Nemesis is a good Trek movie or better than TWOK, but we at least got to see Picard having a philosophical discussion with somebody, we got some character moments that didn't involve running around and fighting bad guys, and these still felt very much like the same evolved TNG characters we knew and loved.

And plus, frankly, I found the space battle at the end a thousand times cooler, with the Ent-E actually kicking ass and putting up a pretty good fight (unlike a certain other ship).
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Old May 18 2013, 06:57 PM   #2889
Ryan8bit
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I just couldn't help get this nagging feeling of Uhura reading from dictionaries in Star Trek VI ("We is condemning food and things") while talking to the Klingons in this movie.
Or she was simply more of an engineer than a linguist in the Prime timeline?
Yeah, I think we discussed something like that, but then we really nerded out and questioned how something like just the destruction of the Kelvin could change her career path. Butterfly effect and all I guess, but I just chalked it up to reboot and left it at that (nerd cred -1). I definitely prefer nuhura's skill set. You can tack diplomacy on there as well, really.
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Old May 18 2013, 06:57 PM   #2890
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CaptainStoner wrote: View Post
Seems to me that, while keeping this film consistent with the last, Abrams responded to practically every Trekkie criticism. No lens flare to speak of here. Lights in your face much reduced. Kirk taken down a notch.
I don't know what movie you saw, but there was plenty of lens flare in this film. The production design did not budge an inch. And for the ship to get a refit only to change the impulse drive rather than to fix so many of its other obvious flaws like the bow-legged nacelle struts is even more stubborn.
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Old May 18 2013, 06:58 PM   #2891
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Lastly, I thought Cumberbatch was really a great actor, but he didn't really remind me of Khan. I absolutely loved his deviousness, his cold calculation, and his general badass qualities, but he seemed more like a robot for the majority of the time. It felt like he was lacking a certain charisma or something. Like when Kirk told Scotty to shoot Khan on the bridge of the Vengeance, I think we were supposed to feel conflicted about it, but I wasn't really.
That was similar to my impression. He's very menacing, but... I didn't get that much out of it otherwise.
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Old May 18 2013, 07:04 PM   #2892
Ryan8bit
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

davejames wrote: View Post
The only side we really see of Starfleet is the military side, the characters are all thoroughly modern and feel like they could have come from any modern-day action movie, and there's no time to have a thoughful conversation about anything.
I kinda had this feeling a little bit too. I get that it's a summer blockbuster and that there's gonna be lots of action. But it almost felt a bit relentless. I wonder if they had made the movie longer if they could have made the pace less frenetic, or if they would have just crammed it with more stuff.
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Old May 18 2013, 07:14 PM   #2893
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
I just couldn't help get this nagging feeling of Uhura reading from dictionaries in Star Trek VI ("We is condemning food and things") while talking to the Klingons in this movie.
Or she was simply more of an engineer than a linguist in the Prime timeline?
Yeah, I think we discussed something like that, but then we really nerded out and questioned how something like just the destruction of the Kelvin could change her career path. Butterfly effect and all I guess, but I just chalked it up to reboot and left it at that (nerd cred -1). I definitely prefer nuhura's skill set. You can tack diplomacy on there as well, really.
I always accepted that Uhura in the old timeline was trained in the "formal" application of languages. Dialects and colloquialisms vary by region. Unless she had studied and absorbed all of them, there was no way to avoid using the translator. Or in that case, "phrasebooks."

In this new timeline Uhura has specialized in languages and dialects. Big difference.
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Old May 18 2013, 07:23 PM   #2894
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
How would you guys think about the remake of Spock's death scene from TWOK, and had Spock shouted "HAAARRRRRRRRISSSSSOOOOOOOONNN!" after Kirk died, had Harrison NOT been Khan?
That would just be stupid and meaningless since Harrison is a made up identity. Having him be Khan carries so much more weight and meaning with it.
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Old May 18 2013, 07:28 PM   #2895
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

The one thing I didn't care for in this movie was the blatant left-wing politics when it came to killing Khan...or Harrison at the time. Ultimately, the crew was right to question Marcus's motives but if they had chance to kill Khan with a missile strike, you take that in a heartbeat. All that damage in San Francisco at the end could have been avoided.
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