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Old May 17 2013, 02:42 PM   #16
Guy Gardener
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

The TX "enhanced" the Virus. Was that necessary? And how much did they enhance it?

This changed the future.

If Old Skynet felt like it it could have enhanced the virus past the abilities of young Skynet to fight effectively. Old Skynet could have also fixed the fight and the vrus took a divein the first round.
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Old May 17 2013, 03:47 PM   #17
MacLeod
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

Turd Ferguson wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
The timeline is a paradox. The T-800 comes back to kill Sarah due to orders from SkyNet. The T-800 is destroyed, and its advanced technology leads to the development of SkyNet.

Also, what was the T-800 going to do if Sarah had an unlisted number?
That's what I'm getting at. If the T-800 assumes Ginger is Sarah, it'll never get destroyed then reversed engineered by Cyberdyne. Unless it puts in a application at Cyberdyne and pretty much creates SkyNet itself.
But if SkyNet was never created by reverse engineering, the Terminator would never have existed to go back in time anyway. Besides it's clear that nothing can stop Judgement Day comming, given that John's father Kyle is from that apocolayptic future. No Judgement Day = no John Conner.
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Old May 17 2013, 06:11 PM   #18
Gaith
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

MacLeod wrote: View Post
it's clear that nothing can stop Judgement Day coming, given that John's father Kyle is from that apocolayptic future. No Judgement Day = no John Conner.
Maybe Connor's original father wasn't Reese.
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Old May 18 2013, 01:11 AM   #19
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

Paradoxing the future you came from dead has no effect on a tourist in the past.

Either multiple futures exist parrallelly or the act of travelling through time divorces a traveller from any obligations to respect linear continuity.

They moved the date of the war, but the first movie still happened exactly the same as it did.

Just make some guesses about the shape of the planet if World War II didn't start till 1945?
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Old May 18 2013, 02:04 AM   #20
T.Geiger
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

The Badger wrote: View Post
As an aside, T3 stated that Judgement Day 'is inevitable' (which kind of contradicts the whole 'no fate but what you make' business, but so much for consistency). So no matter what Sarah did or who she phoned, Skynet would still be built and wage it's war.
I think they discuss this idea a bit. The general thought I took away from the third movie is that the idea of Skynet is 'inevitable' because its a government project. The US government wants a super smart AI controlling its nukes because apparently there is no Science Fiction in their world to tell them how bad an idea that truly is.

When Cyberdyne goes down for the count in the second movie, Sarah and team genuinely succeeded in changing their fate... by kicking the can down the road a few years. The government still wants their supersmart AI, so they throw millions of dollars at some other company, which puts together the new and improved Skynet. The one that doesn't run on easily targetable mainframes, because nobody uses those anymore. (Nice job breaking it, hero.) Had they somehow managed to destroy that system in its early stages also, the next iteration probably would have run off everyone's smartphones, embedding itself into social media sites.

So, yeah, Sarah and John changed their fate alright. They decided it was too easy the first time around, so its time to try on hard mode.
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Old May 18 2013, 02:59 AM   #21
Guy Gardener
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

Skynet defended itself when the Government tried to kill it.

Why not just rescue skynet?

Then A Christmas Carol the SOB.

Swoop in and remove the moment where Humanity takes the first shot and Skynet lashes back.

If Skynet isn't given a good reason to Laun...

Um? The US has a wonderful collection of missiles, but it's been a while since greater Russia worked cohesively enough together to mount an effective counter assault, most of the 30 year old missiles in the Russian silo's are more likely to explode on the ground now than get anywhere near their targets... If all the important bits and pieces haven't already been secretly sold on the black market years ago.

So Skynet targets China now?
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Old May 19 2013, 10:51 PM   #22
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

T.Geiger wrote: View Post
The Badger wrote: View Post
As an aside, T3 stated that Judgement Day 'is inevitable' (which kind of contradicts the whole 'no fate but what you make' business, but so much for consistency). So no matter what Sarah did or who she phoned, Skynet would still be built and wage it's war.
I think they discuss this idea a bit. The general thought I took away from the third movie is that the idea of Skynet is 'inevitable' because its a government project.... their world to tell them how bad an idea that truly is.

When Cyberdyne goes down for the count in the second movie, Sarah and team genuinely succeeded in changing their fate...
I don't fully agree... and I made a chart!

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Old May 19 2013, 11:15 PM   #23
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

My fanfiction theory is that there was a more original timeline which we never heard about. Skynet rises. Humanity loses. There is no resistance. Purely for sciences sake, Skynet invents time travel and sends back some meat (kyle Reese) it found in a cage it had forgotten to clean for quite some time to see if time travel works. Kyle in the past finds Sarah, I doubt he can talk after 20 years in a cage being a labrat to Skynet, so the only way they make a baby is if she's too drunk to notice he's a loser (happens all the time) or he rapes her.

Of course, that's if Kyle wa a field slave, he could have been a house slave?

Seemingly loyal to Skynet in the beginning, but then goes native in the past when he notices that no one is holding a whip any more. Of course once sent into the past they just had to find his corpse remains in the future, so they had to send him back terminal. Put a bomb inside him. Maybe a poison?

It's not just enough to make the baby, Kyle has to paint the correct narrative that "someone" raises John to start and lead the resistance, unless the second time through/around it's Kyle who leads/invents the resistance.

How does your timeline graph fit in with the Terminator/RoboCop comic book crossover?
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Old May 20 2013, 07:56 AM   #24
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

The Terminator-verse has one timeline that travelers can change. I think the Robocop Vs. Terminator comics did the best job of illustrating how it works. Sarah had a big date the weekend the first machine was sent back. This man was quite probably John's original father. Sarah getting pregnant that weekend is a temporal constant, as is Judgement day and SKYnet's inevitable defeat.

Sarah IS responsible for Terminator 2 however. As it is said SKYnet did have records, terribly incomplete records, but it had them. In TSCC Sarah revealed that she had given John up for adoption the day of her break out, pretty much the only time in her and John's life she showed up on the radar. SKYnet had the governments records and sent the 1000 to that day as a backup.
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Old May 23 2013, 07:38 AM   #25
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

The Terminator films to me are the story of how Skynet is winning. Consider:

In the first movie, the T-800 is Skynet's last ditch effort.
In T2, Skynet fights on and manages to send back a more advanced model.
In T3, Skynet sends back a much more advanced model (with weapons) and kills several John Connor lieutenants in the past while killing JC himself in the future. The postponing of Judgment day into the modern era gives Skynet vast capabilities it has never had before.
T4 shows us that even though the resistance scores the odd tactical victory, advanced Terminators are everywhere and the war will go on for another 20 years.

Skynet is winning! Everything the hero characters do in every movie only makes it worse.
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Old May 23 2013, 08:12 AM   #26
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Re: Could Judgment Day have been averted if Sarah hadn't called Ginger

You saw Kyle in T4?

Even if he had been sent into the past to shag Sarah, I don't think his body was stockpiling cum yet.

Michael Biehn was 28 in T1

Anton Yelchin was 20 in T4.

(I still think of him as the kid from Huff.)

Clumsy Smurf?

Really!?
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