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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.35%
A 161 21.64%
A- 100 13.44%
B+ 82 11.02%
B 58 7.80%
B- 27 3.63%
C+ 40 5.38%
C 38 5.11%
C- 24 3.23%
D+ 11 1.48%
D 13 1.75%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.84%
Voters: 744. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 17 2013, 09:31 PM   #2626
trevanian
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
daveyNY wrote: View Post
ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
What finally convinced Paramount to throw so much money at a Star Trek movie anyway? They've always been so tight fisted before.
That's easy...

J. J. Abrams.
The need for a big Summer blockbuster.
Well, they only bumped it from xmas to summer after it was finished (Par had kept TREK clear of summer since TFF in the very competitive summer of 89), so more the need for just some kind of blockbuster.

The way Par looked at TREK clearly changed.

Compare: they threw nearly as much money at 1997's EVENT HORIZON (about 60 mil, though for some reason IMDB has it listed as 50 mil now -- I had a source put it at 75mil at that time, but nothing to back that up) as they did on any of the original TREK TNGfilms, yet there was certainly no guaranteed minimum return on EH like they had with the franchise.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:34 PM   #2627
flemm
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

cbspock wrote: View Post
I am glad Trek has gone back to doing social commentary, it throws the ideas out there, you don't have to agree with it, but it throws the questions out there for it to be discussed.
I agree that it's good to see this. It's pretty similar to Paradise Lost thematically, though that episode was made well *before* 9-11, which is impressive.

The additional element of the long-range missile strike is a very nice touch, though.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:36 PM   #2628
Ryan8bit
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

daveyNY wrote: View Post
Makes me wonder if their first pick for the role (Benicio del Toro?), could have pulled it off as well as Cumberbatch did.

I try very hard not to let myself "talk" myself into NOT liking something.

I just go with my first impressions and hang onto them for dear life no matter what I hear or read...

Letting Logic dictate my entertainment choices, usually results in me missing a fun time.
I'm sure del Toro would've been fine too, but I have little reference for Cumberbatch. I did see that brig scene with Kirk and Khan, and it definitely seemed like Cumberbatch way outshined Pine. That image Dennis posted of that scene made me laugh out loud so hard.

I'm not really talking myself into anything though. I remember when Enterprise first aired and there was a whole lot of the same stuff. "What!? It's four days to Qo'noS? The ship looks like the Akira? Blah blah blah." And despite all of that I still managed to love the pilot episode of the show (at the time).
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Old May 17 2013, 09:37 PM   #2629
cbspock
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

flemm wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
I support the President and voted for him, but the one thing I find very objectionable about him is that he has not differentiated himself from Bush much with regard to national security. So I very much appreciate the Star Trek writers taking a stand on the shit that's gone down in my country since 9/11/2001. I was really shocked at something so explicit - and it's not momentary or cursory; Kirk comes back to the theme in his address at Starfleet which ends the film.

Yeah, I enjoyed this aspect of the film. I thought it was explicit but not overbearing.
trevanian wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
daveyNY wrote: View Post
That's easy...

J. J. Abrams.
The need for a big Summer blockbuster.
Well, they only bumped it from xmas to summer after it was finished (Par had kept TREK clear of summer since TFF in the very competitive summer of 89), so more the need for just some kind of blockbuster.

The way Par looked at TREK clearly changed.

Compare: they threw nearly as much money at 1997's EVENT HORIZON (about 60 mil, though for some reason IMDB has it listed as 50 mil now -- I had a source put it at 75mil at that time, but nothing to back that up) as they did on any of the original TREK TNGfilms, yet there was certainly no guaranteed minimum return on EH like they had with the franchise.

I wonder what changed at Paramount that they finally gave some love and attention to Trek, and decided to roll the dice on rebooting the franchise? Was it the success of other franchises that went through a reboot like Mission Impossible, Batman, James Bond???


-Chris
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Old May 17 2013, 09:38 PM   #2630
HaventGotALife
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

cbspock wrote: View Post
flemm wrote: View Post
Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
I support the President and voted for him, but the one thing I find very objectionable about him is that he has not differentiated himself from Bush much with regard to national security. So I very much appreciate the Star Trek writers taking a stand on the shit that's gone down in my country since 9/11/2001. I was really shocked at something so explicit - and it's not momentary or cursory; Kirk comes back to the theme in his address at Starfleet which ends the film.

Yeah, I enjoyed this aspect of the film. I thought it was explicit but not overbearing.
trevanian wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

The need for a big Summer blockbuster.
Well, they only bumped it from xmas to summer after it was finished (Par had kept TREK clear of summer since TFF in the very competitive summer of 89), so more the need for just some kind of blockbuster.

The way Par looked at TREK clearly changed.

Compare: they threw nearly as much money at 1997's EVENT HORIZON (about 60 mil, though for some reason IMDB has it listed as 50 mil now -- I had a source put it at 75mil at that time, but nothing to back that up) as they did on any of the original TREK TNGfilms, yet there was certainly no guaranteed minimum return on EH like they had with the franchise.

I wonder what changed at Paramount that they finally gave some love and attention to Trek, and decided to roll the dice on rebooting the franchise? Was it the success of other franchises that went through a reboot like Mission Impossible, Batman, James Bond???


-Chris
Maybe they realized that they had to do something grand in scale to get anyone to see it after Nemesis. And the best way to do that was through a re-boot.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:41 PM   #2631
cbspock
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

flemm wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
I am glad Trek has gone back to doing social commentary, it throws the ideas out there, you don't have to agree with it, but it throws the questions out there for it to be discussed.
I agree that it's good to see this. It's pretty similar to Paradise Lost thematically, though that episode was made well *before* 9-11, which is impressive.

The additional element of the long-range missile strike is a very nice touch, though.
I thought of DS9 Paradise Lost and Homefront in terms of into Darkness's themes. It is amazing how a lot of what Star Trek questioned still applies to today. Like A Private Little War and A Taste of Armageddon.


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Old May 17 2013, 09:44 PM   #2632
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Crazy Eddie wrote: View Post
Except that in the prior two occasions we met Khan he has consistently been a crazed megalomaniac bent on global domination who tortures and kills people when he doesn't get what he wants. The one and only time Khan comes across as "sympathetic" it's when he's playing his little violin to get Kirk to help him, primarily because Kirk has him by the balls but also because Marcus has Kirk equally by the balls.

Much like TOS, in fact; Khan's one redeeming characteristic is that he's a charming son of a bitch. That doesn't actually mitigate the fact that he's a murdering psychopath with delusions of grandeur.
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
I am curious what your thoughts were about the vengeance theme?
I'll just repeat what I said earlier: I do not care what reasons Khan might give for doing what he did. I don't care what he's been through - it doesn't make what he does "right". He simply does not have the right to vengeance - his actions during the Eugenics Wars (and in TOS) show what kind of person he is. Khan has no right to lecture anyone about how Admiral Marcus held his fellow Augments for ransom. As we saw in TOS, Khan simply has no compassion of any kind, and has no concept of caring for other people. Yeah, yeah, he called McGivers his "beloved wife", but we also saw how Khan actually treated her as well. It was just one step removed from assault.

As for Khan being forced to work for Marcus? KHAN DESERVES IT.. He deserves everything he got from Section 31. I'm no fan of that group or its motives in general, but as far as Khan being forced to work for them? Good! Let the murdering bastard get his! He can't possibly make up for all the hell he and his Augments put Earth through, but it'd be a start.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:47 PM   #2633
LizK
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Dave Scarpa wrote: View Post
Ensign Ro- wrote: View Post
I saw the American IMAX 3D premiere last night. I went in wanting to love this movie. I avoided all the spoilers. I left incredibly disappointed. I found the movie pandering, gimmicky, poor attention to detail, and just a lazy treatment. I can deal with my beloved franchise being re-booted or re-imagined. I just wish it was being done with original stories.

Even with the far-fetched and poorly thought out volcano scenes, I found what immediately followed to show promise. However, my hopes were quickly dashed. And then, there seemed a moment where Khan actually may have been re-invented as a sympathetic character who took offense to Section 31 using him and his crew for their own purposes. Again, those hopes were soon dashed as he quickly reverted back to a two dimensional villain.

All in all a fun sci-fi movie for new fans. But, I stand by my opinion of it being lazy writing, pandering, gimmicky, and just lacking the heart of the original material.

My grade = C to C-
I agree it would have worked better had they made Khan somewhat sympathetic and had Him and his crew exiled at the end of the film
Actually, when Khan was explaining how he had been the only one unfrozen, and then his people used to blackmail him, he was somewhat sympathetic - he was doing everything he could to protect his "family." And the fact that ALL were put into a cryogenic "prison" was a form of exile - only they won't be able to come back in 20+ years and bother the crew.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:48 PM   #2634
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Captrek wrote: View Post
throwback wrote: View Post
And how does that thing work? I am incapable of understanding how that thing works.
Good point. That rules it out as plausible 23rd century technology.
I dunno - they put a LOT of effort into making the technology credible but futuristic in TOS - how else do you think much of it became reality? The TMP Enterprise always seemed to me to be a thing of absolute beauty and it remains the definitive Enterprise for me. The plans of the ship, for the most part, seemed credible, even though I'm not an engineer, although i admit that all the flashing lights and buttons have to give way to touch screen tech.

The JJprise just seems... less credible - like a fanboy's wet dream, although I'd be very interested to see what real engineers make of the designs.

Two really odd points are that the ship seemed to lose warp power, impulse power, thrusters, and emergency batteries all at once. And in the 21st century we use robotic drones to survey high radiation hot zones for a reason.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:50 PM   #2635
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
I found the engineering as depicted in this movie wonky. I have already written a thread about the differences between this Enterprise and earlier Enterprises. Warp power goes - there goes the ship.

The worst flaw was the reactor core. How do people service that thing? There are no catwalks. And how does that thing work? I am incapable of understanding how that thing works. I feel there was more thought put into the earlier ships than this one.
It actually does "work". It's the Target Chamber at the National Ignition Facility in California. They were filming there for a while, in keeping with JJ's approach that he likes to film in "realistic" surroundings where possible. I think it's cool that the NIF is like a modern-day parallel to a Starship Warp Core.

I just found this great YT vid that aims to explain in simple terms how it works. When you get to the end of the animation, you'll see the target chamber, which you should recognise from the film.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yixhyPN0r3g
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Old May 17 2013, 09:57 PM   #2636
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
And in the 21st century we use robotic drones to survey high radiation hot zones for a reason.
Star Trek has been behind the curve when it comes to robots, from the very beginning. Even Lost in Space had a robot!

It's worth pointing out, though, that had there been engineering drones, or even waldos, of some kind, the plot could have ixnayed them, by saying that radiation in the core would fry out their duotronics or whatever. Scotty: "The core is the one place the Rovers can't go."
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Old May 17 2013, 10:12 PM   #2637
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Wow, I'm actually going to post something outside of treklit.

Just saw it (twice back 2 back) & loved it. I know a bunch of fans are likely unhappy with our villan & some of the reused themes but I enjoyed this movie, may be my personal top three behind FC, TWK, & 09. Loved the emotion, the flow, the action. Loved how McCoy did more than diagnose someone, Scotty got into a fight, Chekov was under under utilized but had good scenes. Oh, & Uhura kicked ass. The scene in Mudd's shuttle was funny & touching.

Someone elsewhere got a sense of The DS9 two-parter involving Red Squad (Homefront & Paradise Lost) & I saw hints of that as well. Sure the bad admiral theme came back, seemed like every other captain in TOS was dirty. Loved the fact Nimoy had a cameo & the tribute at the end, that was awesome.

Looking forward to seeing it again.
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Old May 17 2013, 10:15 PM   #2638
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

CorporalCaptain wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
And in the 21st century we use robotic drones to survey high radiation hot zones for a reason.
Star Trek has been behind the curve when it comes to robots, from the very beginning. Even Lost in Space had a robot!

It's worth pointing out, though, that had there been engineering drones, or even waldos, of some kind, the plot could have ixnayed them, by saying that radiation in the core would fry out their duotronics or whatever. Scotty: "The core is the one place the Rovers can't go."
I was kinda disappointed that the chamber kirk went into didn't have more glowing effects (Lens Flares??) in it.

Seemed like a bit of a let-down after seeing what Spock stuck his head into for TWoK.
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Old May 17 2013, 10:21 PM   #2639
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

daveyNY wrote: View Post
I was kinda disappointed that the chamber kirk went into didn't have more glowing effects (Lens Flares??) in it.

Seemed like a bit of a let-down after seeing what Spock stuck his head into for TWoK.
To me, it looked more practical, and I loved that.

Also, and I know not everyone had this reaction, but in the death scene, where Kirk says, "ship out of danger?" I damn near pissed myself with fan glee.
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Old May 17 2013, 10:23 PM   #2640
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I dunno if anyone noticed, but it looked like Kirk was sparkling when he was in the reactor and looking up at it >_>
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