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View Poll Results: Rate Iron Man 3
Excellent 72 45.86%
Above Average 61 38.85%
Average 16 10.19%
Below Average 4 2.55%
Poor 4 2.55%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 17 2013, 06:21 AM   #241
Mister Fandango
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

The only way I can swallow what happened is by assuming that it was some kind of double bluff, and Ben Kingsley really was the Mandarin. I know it's flawed, but it's the only way I can stomach what happened.

Honestly, the only good things about these movies have been Robert Downey Jr. and the design of the original Iron Man armor. The actual stories and storytelling have truly and utterly sucked. But Downey was just so perfect for the role and he is so charismatic that they're still watchable.

I'd love to see what we'd get with a decent script and talented director.

But even more, I"d love to see more faithful adaptations of all these characters. I hate this insistence on "having" to reinvent every little detail just because some college professor told some film students that so-and-so doesn't work on the big screen. So no one ever even bothers to try. It's ridiculous.
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Old May 17 2013, 07:42 AM   #242
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
But even more, I"d love to see more faithful adaptations of all these characters. I hate this insistence on "having" to reinvent every little detail just because some college professor told some film students that so-and-so doesn't work on the big screen. So no one ever even bothers to try. It's ridiculous.
Nonsense. The Iron Man movies are quite faithful to the source material, much more faithful than anyone expected them to be. It must be noted, however, that the original material is not very good and that you'd be hard pressed to name more than two Iron Man storylines which are considered to be bona fide classics of the superhero genre. Iron Man is much more successful as a movie character than he's ever been as a comic book character, which should tell you something about the perceived quality of the scripts and direction.
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Old May 17 2013, 06:02 PM   #243
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

^^^^
I would disagree. I'm guessing your asking for someone to name story lines that aren't Demon in a Bottle or Armor Wars? Not sure that alone proves anything.

Iron Man has been a top tier comic character, in general for decades. It's not like he only had some 12-ish mini series. His movie success only showed to a general, wider audience why he's been published non-stop for over 40 decades and the success in that medium that he's had.
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Old May 17 2013, 08:16 PM   #244
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Nonsense. The Iron Man movies are quite faithful to the source material
The Mandarin disagrees.
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Old May 17 2013, 08:58 PM   #245
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
he's been published non-stop for over 40 decades
That figure may be a bit off.
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Old May 17 2013, 09:12 PM   #246
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

LOL, I meant 40 years!
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Old May 17 2013, 09:56 PM   #247
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Nonsense. The Iron Man movies are quite faithful to the source material
The Mandarin disagrees.
Fu Manchu with magic rings is derivative of undistinguished pulp writing, and worse, ignores all the ugly racial implications that could torpedo the movie's entertainment value. The first Iron Man movie was alert, focused on blowback and taking responsibility and Stark's fellow prisoner. The third movie was perfunctory enough. Incorporating the comic book Mandarin would have just been dickish.

PS Yes, there is distinguished pulp. Edgar Rice Burroughs, A. Merrit, Max Brand/Frederick Faust, Jim Thompson. Sax Rohmer isn't even very much compared to M.P. Shiel!
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Old May 17 2013, 10:38 PM   #248
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
LOL, I meant 40 years!
You had it write the first time, if not underestimating the age of the franchise. Any cursory look at art and literature from the medieval period shows Iron Man in full armor.
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Old May 17 2013, 10:44 PM   #249
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

stj wrote: View Post
Fu Manchu with magic rings is derivative of undistinguished pulp writing, and worse, ignores all the ugly racial implications that could torpedo the movie's entertainment value. The first Iron Man movie was alert, focused on blowback and taking responsibility and Stark's fellow prisoner. The third movie was perfunctory enough. Incorporating the comic book Mandarin would have just been dickish.
Minor changes for modern sensibilities would have been fine. What we got in the movie was nothing even remotely close to the Mandarin. He didn't have to be "Fu Manchu," but at least being real would have been nice. Ditto for having the rings. And, you know, just being a real, challenging, and interesting villain. Not a washed-up actor using a stupid voice. (Which, somehow, isn't insulting to the Middle East anywhere as badly as a Fu Manchu type would have been to China. I guess making fun of their stereotypes is okay since they're currently America's "enemy.")

It'd be like Batman facing the Joker... only to find out that the Joker is just a sticker on the back of some redneck's pick-up. Or Superman pited against Lex Luthor... who turns out to be nothing more than the letters that were on some chick's Scrabble slate.

But nevermind any of that. Jarvis also disagrees. So does the Extremis project. Neither of which needed -- in any way, shape or form -- to be changed for "movie going audiences." Yet changed they were. Even more absurdly, no one in the movie universe has shown even a mild interest in the super-advanced AI that is Jarvis. Which in insane considering his capabilities. Even the AI in the mechanical arm would be worth risking everything to get.

(Also, do yourself a favor and read back over what this subtopic is about before ranting on some more.)
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Old May 18 2013, 01:22 AM   #250
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

But the major foreign affairs policy initiative under way is the "pivot" to Asia, meaning against China. Most of humanity is "our" enemy, including the larger portion of the domestic US population. Turning the Mandarin into a big fraud perpetrated on the US government isn't nearly as honest as a big fraud perpetrated by the US government. An audience member who insists can still interpret the ten rings logi with its Arabic script at face value, but the story says otherwise. I think that's about as decent as you're going to get for a summer blockbuster movie.

I personally would have had a real Mandarin of sorts, a US citizen of Chinese descent from a Washington Beltway security thinktank operating an intelligence operation to subvert China on behalf of the US government. And everyone of the ten rings a development of Stark technology. And the name would merely have been a nickname from Stark, as he mocked the academic credentials of the villain. Stark could simultaneously have been loose cannon, prima donna, lone man against the establishment, the establishment personified and hero taking responsibility. Neither of us got the Mandarin we preferred.

You're right about Jarvis and Extremis. Whatever Extremis was in the comics, it was hasty and derivative in the movie. As for Jarvis, I think I would have cast David Hyde Pierce. Talking to any real human would have been better.
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Old May 18 2013, 12:23 PM   #251
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
It'd be like Batman facing the Joker... only to find out that the Joker is just a sticker on the back of some redneck's pick-up. Or Superman pited against Lex Luthor... who turns out to be nothing more than the letters that were on some chick's Scrabble slate.
The analogy, of course, is broken; there was a real "Mandarin" of sorts in this film, and it was Killian. You might say that he wasn't Chinese. Well, you were ready to accept the non-Chinese Ben Kingsley as the Mandarin, weren't you?
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Old May 18 2013, 02:56 PM   #252
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
The analogy, of course, is broken; there was a real "Mandarin" of sorts in this film, and it was Killian. You might say that he wasn't Chinese. Well, you were ready to accept the non-Chinese Ben Kingsley as the Mandarin, weren't you?
I wasn't aware that I was.
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Old May 18 2013, 03:32 PM   #253
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

"The only way I can swallow what happened is by assuming that it was some kind of double bluff, and Ben Kingsley really was the Mandarin. I know it's flawed, but it's the only way I can stomach what happened."
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Old May 18 2013, 05:10 PM   #254
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Yes, that would have been the only way I'd "accept" what happened in the movie. It doesn't mean I would have been any more happy with it, or that it would have made the character even remotely similar to the comic book version of the character.

As I told stj: Do yourself a favor and read back over on the actual subtopic being discussed rather than just picking random tidbits.
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Old May 18 2013, 10:43 PM   #255
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Re: "Iron Man 3" Review and Discussion Thread (spoilers)

Maybe there was an actual Mandarin and A.I.M. had him "removed". Then they replaced him with the actor and took over Ten Rings as a front for A.I.M. operations.
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