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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old May 16 2013, 01:27 PM   #31
Infern0
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

I have accepted a long time ago that the Trek I grew up with is gone, it's not coming back.

JJ Trek IS just popcorn action films, that's what sells now.

I enjoy the new movies for what they are, but the pioneer spirit, the ethics, the exploration is done. People don't want it.

It's a shame but that's just the way it is.

Anyone who misses "Star Trek" and isn't 100% satisfied with "JJ Trek" I suggest getting into the Star Trek books because the spirit lives on in those.
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Old May 16 2013, 02:09 PM   #32
Relayer1
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Infern0 wrote: View Post
I have accepted a long time ago that the Trek I grew up with is gone, it's not coming back.

JJ Trek IS just popcorn action films, that's what sells now.

I enjoy the new movies for what they are, but the pioneer spirit, the ethics, the exploration is done. People don't want it.

It's a shame but that's just the way it is.

Anyone who misses "Star Trek" and isn't 100% satisfied with "JJ Trek" I suggest getting into the Star Trek books because the spirit lives on in those.
I agree, but I'm not as down about it as you are.

Firstly, the Roddenberry vision didn't prove that great - it was OK for TOS but the movies and TNG only got good after Gene got the boot. He'd have had a blue fit about DS9, and that's the best Trek out there imho.

JJ Trek is like it is, because it's 'The Movies' and that's how movies are nowadays. Any new TV show would probably be a lot closer to Trek as we know it.

Anyhow, the continuation novels are fantastic !
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Old May 16 2013, 02:25 PM   #33
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
I agree, but I'm not as down about it as you are.

Firstly, the Roddenberry vision didn't prove that great - it was OK for TOS but the movies and TNG only got good after Gene got the boot. He'd have had a blue fit about DS9, and that's the best Trek out there imho.

JJ Trek is like it is, because it's 'The Movies' and that's how movies are nowadays. Any new TV show would probably be a lot closer to Trek as we know it.

Anyhow, the continuation novels are fantastic !
Yeah certainly a lot of what came after Gene handed over the reigns was different, more of an evolution imo.

JJ Trek is more slimmed down, it's not bad at all but it doesn't engage my imagination the same way as TOS-TNG-DS9 did.

I think maybe if they do a new TV show i'd be interested because they'd have some ongoing story arcs and it couldn't just be battles and explosions and chase scenes non-stop.

"real trek" at the movies was always hit and miss, what they have going now is safe but ultimately successful
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Old May 16 2013, 08:36 PM   #34
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

I definitely have to agree that Star Trek got better once Roddenberry wasn't suppressing the writing talent. The JJverse isn't really my thing, but I can see why some would like it. Far too effects dependent for my tastes.
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Old May 16 2013, 09:46 PM   #35
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

R. Star wrote: View Post
I definitely have to agree that Star Trek got better once Roddenberry wasn't suppressing the writing talent.
He didn't. The only thing Roddenberry insisted on was that by the time of TNG our heroes spend more time fighting bad guys than each other. Half-way though the first season, he turned over the reins to Berman and stepped back into a supervisory role (primarily okaying what Berman was doing).
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Old May 16 2013, 10:15 PM   #36
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

I guess it's just a pure coincidence that TNG got substantially better once the Roddenberry box was lifted?
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Old May 17 2013, 01:58 AM   #37
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

You honestly think TNG got better after Roddenberry passed on the reigns???

The characters lost their souls. They didn't care about each other. Under Roddenberry the members of the USS Enterprise were family. Berman turned the ship into a cold, corporate work place.

They were one-dimensional characters that served nothing but to advance the plot.

And how about a little philosophy with your science fiction? You didn't see it under Berman. Berman era writers could barely write a plot let alone put some meaning into it.

Watch an episode of ENT and tell me that's not true.

Now, what I intended to post:

Star Trek is like fine art in this respect: there are many Cubists but only one Pablo Picasso. With Picasso dead we will never see Cubism created at such a high level. Same with Star Trek: Roddenberry died and took Star Trek with him. Such is the nature of creativity.

Enjoy what he left us.
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Old May 17 2013, 02:40 AM   #38
Nerys Myk
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Anji wrote: View Post
You honestly think TNG got better after Roddenberry passed on the reigns???

The characters lost their souls. They didn't care about each other. Under Roddenberry the members of the USS Enterprise were family. Berman turned the ship into a cold, corporate work place.

They were one-dimensional characters that served nothing but to advance the plot.

And how about a little philosophy with your science fiction? You didn't see it under Berman. Berman era writers could barely write a plot let alone put some meaning into it.

Watch an episode of ENT and tell me that's not true.

Now, what I intended to post:

Star Trek is like fine art in this respect: there are many Cubists but only one Pablo Picasso. With Picasso dead we will never see Cubism created at such a high level. Same with Star Trek: Roddenberry died and took Star Trek with him. Such is the nature of creativity.

Enjoy what he left us.
Were we watching the same shows?

I'm a big fan of TOS. TNG, not so much. But your characterization of the "Berman era" doesn't ring very true.
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Old May 17 2013, 02:58 AM   #39
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Apparently Anji's watching a different show than us. You want "cold" characters with "lost souls" that are "one-dimensional" that would seem to sum up season 1 of TNG rather accurately to me.

I'll concede that Enterprise's characterization was completely lacking on so many levels, but the post-Roddenberry TNG and DS9 was Trek's finest hour in my opinion.
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Old May 17 2013, 11:14 AM   #40
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

R. Star wrote: View Post
I guess it's just a pure coincidence that TNG got substantially better once the Roddenberry box was lifted?
It was lifted half-way through TNG's first season (not the third season, but midpoint of the first). It was really Berman's show from that far back in the series.

If TNG got "substantially better", it had more to do with Michael Piller signing on as executive producer by season three than Berman.
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Old May 17 2013, 01:11 PM   #41
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

R. Star wrote: View Post

I'll concede that Enterprise's characterization was completely lacking on so many levels, but the post-Roddenberry TNG and DS9 was Trek's finest hour in my opinion.
Finest hour eh?

I always found the characters in DS9/VOY and later TNG cringeworthy, sort of the characterisation and acting panache found in a eary 90's straight-to-video movie.

This made Trek unpaletable to millions of others who refused to go see Berman era trek, as the characters were totally charmless and unengaging.

The most successfull TNG era/Post roddenberry movie I believe was First contact, where a bunch of pale actors in rubber suits walk around like they had a carrot stuck up their behind and not say a word upstaged the main cast.

Just sums up the characterisation of post-Roddenberry Trek.
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Old May 17 2013, 01:26 PM   #42
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

anh165 wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post

I'll concede that Enterprise's characterization was completely lacking on so many levels, but the post-Roddenberry TNG and DS9 was Trek's finest hour in my opinion.
Finest hour eh?

I always found the characters in DS9/VOY and later TNG cringeworthy, sort of the characterisation and acting panache found in a eary 90's straight-to-video movie.

This made Trek unpaletable to millions of others who refused to go see Berman era trek, as the characters were totally charmless and unengaging.

The most successfull TNG era/Post roddenberry movie I believe was First contact, where a bunch of pale actors in rubber suits walk around like they had a carrot stuck up their behind and not say a word upstaged the main cast.

Just sums up the characterisation of post-Roddenberry Trek.

I just love when people state their opinions as if they're fact and find it acceptable to mock people who don't share their opinions as if it somehow is a fault for not thinking what they do. But yeah when the substantive argument includes phrases like "carrot stuck up their behind" well what can you expect?

Oh and spell check is your friend.
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Old May 17 2013, 01:35 PM   #43
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Christopher wrote: View Post
LancerKind wrote: View Post
What makes Roddenberry's vision unique beyond other fiction was something heavily discussed in Why Trekkies hated the 2009 movie.
A title which is a blatant lie. As a Trekkie who liked the movie, I deeply resent it when people who didn't like it claim that their personal opinion represents the consensus of all fandom. It's cowardly and dishonest to hide behind that pretense rather than just saying "This is my own personal view," and it's dismissive and insulting to those of us who have our own diverse opinions.
.
Amen. I keep vowing I won't get sucked into this same old debate again, but then somebody plays the "all real Trekkies hate the reboot" card again and my hackles ride.

Just the other day, I was contacted by a reporter who wanted to gin up controversy by pitting old-school Trekkies against the new movie . . . and who seemed genuinely surprised and frustrated when I refused to play along! (At one point, he actually asked me to recommend a Trek author who would be willing to state that the new movies weren't "real" Trek, but I declined to cooperate.)

And, as usual, he seemed to have bought into the myth that TOS was a "non-violent" series that never stooped to cheap thrills or action. I admit my jaw dropped to hear this from a professional journalist whom you'd think would have actually done a little research on the original series.

Jesus Christ, I pointed out, barely an episode went by that Kirk didn't get into fistfight, Federation colonies and outposts were wiped out on a regular basis, and all those redshirts didn't exactly die of natural causes. "Non-violent" indeed!

Where do people get this stuff?
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Old May 18 2013, 09:09 PM   #44
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

Which Roddenberry are you referring to? The Roddenberry of TOS days? Or are you wanting the Gene from the early days of TNG's development? The Roddenberry who had basically lost most of his faculties and burned practically every bridge with TOS staff he had brought on board to shepherd the new show. The same gene who was pitching overly sexualized ideas like Betazoids having four breasts and the Ferengi being extremely well endowed in their nether regions (that would have been fun to see on syndicated TV).

More Sex Trek baby!
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Old May 18 2013, 11:45 PM   #45
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Re: Let's get back to Roddenberry's trek

So long as you have engaging characters and stories, the actual look isn't as important.
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