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Old May 14 2013, 12:52 PM   #91
Guy Gardener
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Who's mocking?

I think it's amazing that there's a human being so criminally batshit that she thinks that she's an Orion Slave Girl WHILE COMMITTING CRIME.
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Old May 14 2013, 12:56 PM   #92
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

That is kind of awesome
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Old May 16 2013, 02:52 AM   #93
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Eh, I like Vorik and even I don't really understand half the stuff that goes on in Blood Fever. He's pretty naive for a Vulcan, but I find it hard to believe he'd be so naive as to believe Torres would want him. By then it was pretty obvious she was into Paris anyway.

With no Vulcan females on the ship and knowing he was likely to endure several pon farrs during the 70 year trip home wouldn't it have made more sense to learn how to date and cultivate a serious relationship that the other females would recognize as such? Vorik went about it in such a Vulcan way (not concerning himself with the pon farr until it was upon him, expecting Torres to respond as a Vulcan female would, etc) that no one else on board knew what the heck was going on.

Part of why Vorik was rejected was because of cultural miscommunication. A Vulcan female might have seen that proposal coming. Torres and most of the other non Vulcan women on board, no way.
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Old May 16 2013, 03:55 AM   #94
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Sadara wrote: View Post

With no Vulcan females on the ship and knowing he was likely to endure several pon farrs during the 70 year trip home wouldn't it have made more sense to learn how to date and cultivate a serious relationship that the other females would recognize as such?
I seem to recall there are more men than women on the ship and I'm thinking Vorik is really not going to get anywhere unless there's some gal with a Vulcan fetish. Really awkward teenager is how he comes across.
Vorik went about it in such a Vulcan way (not concerning himself with the pon farr until it was upon him, expecting Torres to respond as a Vulcan female would, etc) that no one else on board knew what the heck was going on.
So true! He's in total denial whereas he should have broached the topic with the EMH ages ago. And really shouldn't the EMH have brought it up during a routine physical?
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Old May 16 2013, 05:27 AM   #95
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Seven years and a walking talking hologram isn't enough?

Probably the heat coming from a plasma junction would also suffice.
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Old May 16 2013, 09:36 AM   #96
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

This would have been a fantastic loophole for Janeway to have sex with a crewman.

"Never send a hologram to do a woman's job."

Savvik had Bloodfever sex with Spock when his anatomy had the characteristics of 14 years old, 21 years old, 28 years old, 35 years old and 42 years old (give or take depending on when puberty started.)... Which should have no emotional effect on Spock after McCoy gave his marbles back or Saavik who took at least 5 for the team.

Considering in the Books they get married, you have to wonder when she began to think of him as a suitor rather than a mentor?

Although in alternate edit of the 4th movie, Saavik is clearly pregnant but it's still decades before Picard attends Spocks wedding, as mentioned in TNG Sarek.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:40 PM   #97
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

teacake wrote: View Post
Sadara wrote: View Post

With no Vulcan females on the ship and knowing he was likely to endure several pon farrs during the 70 year trip home wouldn't it have made more sense to learn how to date and cultivate a serious relationship that the other females would recognize as such?
I seem to recall there are more men than women on the ship and I'm thinking Vorik is really not going to get anywhere unless there's some gal with a Vulcan fetish. Really awkward teenager is how he comes across.
Vorik went about it in such a Vulcan way (not concerning himself with the pon farr until it was upon him, expecting Torres to respond as a Vulcan female would, etc) that no one else on board knew what the heck was going on.
So true! He's in total denial whereas he should have broached the topic with the EMH ages ago. And really shouldn't the EMH have brought it up during a routine physical?
You would think someone would have broached the subject at some point. The instant Voyager was stranded in the Delta Quadrant, Vorik should have been concerning himself with his options when his Pon Farr came around. To delay that was illogical really. No Vulcan females on board means that he really needed to learn how to romance the human females. Awkward because he didn't grow up learning those social skills, but he didn't have much choice left.

His other mistake was the one most Vulcans make; they keep their mouths sealed about it. He proposed to Torres before being honest that it was a matter of life and death. Granted, she wouldn't accept based on that, but he might have incurred some sympathy rather than her wrath.

And you'd think Tuvok would be of some help, but again typical Vulcan "we don't talk about it" nonsense. Their attitudes toward the pon farr leave very little leeway for consideration of circumstance.

As for Vorik coming across as an awkward teenager, non canon sources put him at about 22 years old at the time of Blood Fever. That's pretty darn young for a Vulcan. It would have been interesting to see what Vorik would have tried the second time had Voyager still been in the DQ.
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Old May 16 2013, 07:48 PM   #98
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

It's possible that the Doctor (in the beginning with basic factory settings.) may not have been able to initiate anything to do with Pon far, which if that was programmed badly enough as some politically correct protocol to spare the Vulcans any shame or embarrassment, he may not have even been able to think about Pon Far or be aware that it exists until a patient "asks" for help.

Thinking is not singing.
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Old May 16 2013, 09:19 PM   #99
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
It's possible that the Doctor (in the beginning with basic factory settings.) may not have been able to initiate anything to do with Pon far, which if that was programmed badly enough as some politically correct protocol to spare the Vulcans any shame or embarrassment, he may not have even been able to think about Pon Far or be aware that it exists until a patient "asks" for help.

Thinking is not singing.
I notice he did not use the same tactic he used on Zimmerman to heal his patient. Disguising himself as an alien masseuse (Lifeline).
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Old May 16 2013, 09:34 PM   #100
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Do you think Vorik resented Miral?

"Ungrateful snotty little ####! It's my DNA you should be made out of, not that #### Paris! I bet he can't even add... SEE! Flawed weak human DNA has made you a ####y Mathamatician, you blunt eared little Baby ####! I should be your daddy! Not that blond pretty boy ####!"

Okay, maybe I meant, does "drunk" Vorik resent baby Miral Paris?

In the original (Admiral Janeway ) timeline, unless Vorrik was one of the 20 who died, this Vulcan did spend 14 years watching Miral grow up under foot.
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Old May 17 2013, 12:34 AM   #101
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Hm, interesting questions, GG. That is a question of whether Vorik had any true feelings for B'Elanna beyond the 7 year booty call.

It's not very logical that he would be attracted to the volatile personality of Torres. Nor is it logical he would be attracted to engineering skills, though he might dispassionately admire them. What about proximity to her on a daily basis as an attracting factor? An emotional reaction easily explained away. But enough to offset her attractiveness to a Vulcan? If Vorik liked B'Elanna for this reason, he would have spontaneously combusted for Seven.

I think Vorik and Kes would have made a cute couple with some intriguing counterpoints, if few sparks.
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Old May 17 2013, 01:10 AM   #102
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

Maybe she is giving off Klingon/Human hybrid super pheromones and Vorik is sensitive to them. Since Vulcans have a more developed sense of smell.

Triskelion wrote: View Post

I think Vorik and Kes would have made a cute couple with some intriguing counterpoints, if few sparks.
Least sexy pairing ever.
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Old May 17 2013, 01:15 AM   #103
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

A refresher...

TORRES: Great. You two can be our safety experts.
VORIK: Have we completed our preparations to your satisfaction?
TORRES: We're done here, yes.
VORIK: Let me take this opportunity to declare koon-ut so'lik, my desire to become your mate.
TORRES: What?
VORIK: In human terms, I am proposing marriage. Do you accept?
TORRES: This is, er, a little sudden, isn't it? Besides, I thought that Vulcan marriages were arranged. Don't you already have somebody back home?
VORIK: She has sufficient reason to consider me lost, and has most likely chosen another mate. It's appropriate for me to do the same.
TORRES: And you've chosen me?
VORIK: I have come to greatly admire not only your impressive technical skills, but also your bravery and sense of moral duty, all excellent qualities in a prospective mate.
TORRES: But you're Vulcan. I am half-Klingon. I really can't imagine
VORIK: Perhaps we are not an obvious match. However, our differences would complement each other. You've often expressed frustration with your Klingon temper. My mental discipline would help you control it. Furthermore, I feel that
TORRES: Wait, please. Please, I'm, I see that you've given this a lot of, er, logical thought and I really am very flattered, but my answer is no. I'm sorry.
VORIK: B'Elanna! You may wish to reconsider. Your choices for a mate are currently limited to seventy three male crew members on this ship, some of whom are already unavailable.
TORRES: I'll worry about my choices myself, thank you.
VORIK: I should also remind you that many humanoid species are unable to withstand Klingon mating practices
TORRES: Okay, that's enough.
VORIK: whereas my superior Vulcan strength would make me a very suitable partner.
He liked her inside and out.

Unable to withstand Klingon mating practices?

Why is Vorik bringing up Kim in a moment of heightened intimacy?
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; May 17 2013 at 02:10 AM.
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Old May 17 2013, 01:35 AM   #104
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

I think he was rather sweet in his attraction to her, a shame he didn't know how to go about forming even a friendship prior to his mating call.
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Old May 17 2013, 02:08 AM   #105
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Re: Paris + B'Elanna scene, absolute cop-out

He didn't know what she was into.

Paris made the Latina MORE angry.

Wood for her furnace so to speak glibly.

Latina?

Torres?

Latina?

Oh... My... God.

Fuck you Chakotay.

B'Elanna is a Native American Indian too!

(Seriously. 20 years.)

Except she's super cool about it.

Dear lord this lady must have rolled her eyes whenever he talked about the spirits of his ancestors.
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