RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,910
Posts: 5,330,936
Members: 24,558
Currently online: 689
Newest member: laurah2215

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 15 2013, 05:33 AM   #1
The Overlord
Captain
 
The Romulans as "Space Romans"

The Romulans have been called "Space Romans" in the past, but how accurate is that? Roman Society lasted for a thousand years and went through many changes, Rome started as a republic and became a dictatorship, had something akin to Monarchy for a while, until the end of the Julio-Claudian dynasty. That's not mentioning the Holy Roman Empire and the period where the Roman Empire was split into two different empires, an Western and Eastern one.

So what era of Roman Society are the Romulans based on? Is it a democracy or a dictatorship? Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? Is the Senate elected or appointed? How are Praetors selected?

Also the Roman Empire was never really xenophobic, it made the people they conquered Roman citizens and even tried to improve their lives in some ways, usually by improving road systems and building aqueducts. The Romulan Empire doesn't seem similar to the Romans in that important respect.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 05:35 AM   #2
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

The Overlord wrote: View Post
So what era of Roman Society are the Romulans based on? Is it a democracy or a dictatorship?
Probably a bit of both.

Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? Is the Senate elected or appointed?
IIRC, Romulan senators are indeed elected.

How are Praetors selected?
The Continuing Committee, I think. One of their duties is the confirmation of a new Praetor. Although we don't know what process candidates have to go through to get to that point.
__________________
In labor news: Longshoremen walked off the piers today. Rescue operations are continuing.
Mr. Laser Beam is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 05:42 AM   #3
The Overlord
Captain
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
So what era of Roman Society are the Romulans based on? Is it a democracy or a dictatorship?
Probably a bit of both.

Who holds the real power, the Senate or the Praetor? Is the Senate elected or appointed?
IIRC, Romulan senators are indeed elected.

How are Praetors selected?
The Continuing Committee, I think. One of their duties is the confirmation of a new Praetor. Although we don't know what process candidates have to go through to get to that point.
Well the Roman Empire was kinda of a dictatorship after rule of Julius and then Augustus Caesar, where because the Emperor had absolute control of the military, they could bully the senate into doing what they wanted. Is that the relationship in the Romulan Empire?

Also there seems to be a secret police, which seems to undermine the idea that the Romulan Empire is a democracy.

It be interesting to see if there similarities in history between the Roman and Romulans Empire. Have they ever had a Nero or Caligula style ruler, someone who was pretty insane? It seems like Shinzon is the closet comparison, but he likely wasn't Praetor for more then a month.

Last edited by The Overlord; May 15 2013 at 05:53 AM.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 05:59 AM   #4
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

One probably shouldn't take the idea of the Romulans being "Space Romans" too literally
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 06:06 AM   #5
The Overlord
Captain
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
One probably shouldn't take the idea of the Romulans being "Space Romans" too literally
It seems like too easy an explanation for their society and doesn't take into account the long and confusing history of Roman Society.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 06:19 AM   #6
Nerys Myk
Fleet Admiral
 
Nerys Myk's Avatar
 
Location: House of Kang, now with ridges
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

The Overlord wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
One probably shouldn't take the idea of the Romulans being "Space Romans" too literally
It seems like too easy an explanation for their society and doesn't take into account the long and confusing history of Roman Society.
Whats confusing about Roman Society? Any society that last for centuries is going to evolve and change.

While the creators of Star Trek borrowed from the Romans in naming the Romulans as a species and individuals, the actual source for Balance of Terror was a WWII submarine film. And the isolation of Romulans is more reminiscent of Japan and China at various points in history.
__________________
The boring one, the one with Khan, the one where Spock returns, the one with whales, the dumb one, the last one, the one with Kirk, the one with the Borg, the stupid one, the bad one, the new one, the other one with Khan.
Nerys Myk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 06:22 AM   #7
The Overlord
Captain
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
The Overlord wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
One probably shouldn't take the idea of the Romulans being "Space Romans" too literally
It seems like too easy an explanation for their society and doesn't take into account the long and confusing history of Roman Society.
Whats confusing about Roman Society? Any society that last for centuries is going to evolve and change.

While the creators of Star Trek borrowed from the Romans in naming the Romulans as a species and individuals, the actual source for Balance of Terror was a WWII submarine film. And the isolation of Romulans is more reminiscent of Japan and China at various points in history.
Its confusing because the Roman Empire existed for a thousand years and went through massive changes in that amount of time, so just calling them "Space Romans" as some people do, doesn't really tell you anything about them, really.

It just seems like the Romulan Empire seems very under developed compared to other societies on the Star Trek TV shows.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 07:11 AM   #8
scotpens
Vice Admiral
 
scotpens's Avatar
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

From TMOST:
Romulans are highly militaristic, aggressive by nature, ruthless in warfare, and do not take captives. The Star Empire is a dictatorship, with some similarities to the warrior-stoic philosophies of Earth's ancient Roman Empire.
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
One probably shouldn't take the idea of the Romulans being "Space Romans" too literally.
Exactly. The Romulans of TOS Trek were loosely based on a combination of ancient Rome and Sparta. They weren't meant to be a precise analog of any past Earth civilization.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
scotpens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 07:56 AM   #9
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

In Balance of Terror they act like they're from the Kriegsmarine (or Kriegsraumschiff), what with their talk of "If we are the strong, isn't this the signal for war?" and all that, right out of The Enemy Below.
__________________
* * *
"If you wanted to get a good meeting... just go in and
say 'darker, grittier, sexier' and whatever."
—Glen Larson, 2010
Maurice is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 03:19 PM   #10
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

That sort of speech isn't really specific to any culture or era - but the idea of a Praetor pursuing "a private little war" with personally sponsored forces is right out of the Roman textbooks of how to advance one's political career.

What's incompatible between secret police and democracy? As far as is known, all democracies today have a secret police, and all democracies of yesterday had one, too.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 03:29 PM   #11
xvicente
Commander
 
xvicente's Avatar
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

They are Romans.... IN SPACE!!!!
__________________
-----------------------------------------------------------

I am here to talk about Star Trek and chew bubble gum.
and I'm all outta bubble gum.
xvicente is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 04:55 PM   #12
Greg Cox
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Oxford, PA
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Given Star Trek's Cold War roots, I always figured the Klingons were basically the Russians and the Romulans were the Red Chinese . . . .
__________________
www.gregcox-author.com
Greg Cox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 05:03 PM   #13
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

You shouldn't forget the Romulan Empress. Exactly what her role is though has never been made clear though.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 05:41 PM   #14
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Since she was only name-dropped in a Q rant ("Q and the Grey"), she could be a character from the distant past (as in Diane Duane fiction), from the distant future, or from an alternate timeline...

The same goes for the hundred-year Vulcan-Romulan war from the other Q-themed VOY episode ("Death Wish"): it may have taken place, it may yet take place, or it may require an all-new tense to be properly described.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 15 2013, 07:02 PM   #15
The Overlord
Captain
 
Re: The Romulans as "Space Romans"

Timo wrote: View Post
That sort of speech isn't really specific to any culture or era - but the idea of a Praetor pursuing "a private little war" with personally sponsored forces is right out of the Roman textbooks of how to advance one's political career.

What's incompatible between secret police and democracy? As far as is known, all democracies today have a secret police, and all democracies of yesterday had one, too.

Timo Saloniemi
I am not sure I would consider MI5 or the FBI similar to KGB or the Gestapo, the President of the US and the Prime Minister of the UK is criticized all the time and I don't see those people who are critical just disappear the next day. But you couldn't criticize Hitler or Stalin in such a manner and expect nothing will happen to you.

A CIA agent couldn't bully around members of the US military the way the Tal'Shiar bullied around members of the Romulan military in Face of the Enemy. So exactly who are these secret police organizations in all modern democracies?

A democracy needs more then elections to be a democracy, it needs more just elections, it needs rights of citizens to be respected.
The Overlord is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
romulans

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:22 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.