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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.38%
A 161 21.67%
A- 100 13.46%
B+ 82 11.04%
B 58 7.81%
B- 27 3.63%
C+ 40 5.38%
C 38 5.11%
C- 24 3.23%
D+ 11 1.48%
D 13 1.75%
D- 10 1.35%
F 35 4.71%
Voters: 743. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 14 2013, 09:55 PM   #1861
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post

No. He just once took command of the bridge at that age when his superiors were dead and injured. He did not retain it.
We don't know that for sure.
Yeah, I guess we don't.
How old do you think Picard is? He commanded the ship for twenty-two years.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:55 PM   #1862
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

^ Picard was born in 2305. As of the Stargazer incident (when he took command for the first time), I think he was 28.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:56 PM   #1863
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I would point to TMP as evidence that rank doesn't matter when captaining a starship. Admiral Kirk wore captain's stripes when he took over command of the Enterprise.
IIRC, if an Admiral has command of a ship, they are still referred to as Admiral. Kirk actually demoted himself in rank. That's the difference. He expected to KEEP command of the Enterprise.
How do you demote yourself?
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Old May 14 2013, 09:56 PM   #1864
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel wrote: View Post
In the novel The Valiant, the Stargazer's captain and first officer were killed, and Picard took command. He kept it.

Ditto Dax on the USS Aventine in the post-series novels.
But... But.... But.... Enterprise's Captain, Captain Pike, was not killed. And Enterprise returned to Earth after the mission. Kirk was a cadet about to be reprimanded for cheating. Not to mention being a stowaway. But as long as he ends up Captain, it doesn't matter how he gets there.

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Old May 14 2013, 09:57 PM   #1865
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
IIRC, if an Admiral has command of a ship, they are still referred to as Admiral. Kirk actually demoted himself in rank. That's the difference. He expected to KEEP command of the Enterprise.
How do you demote yourself?
Kirk was Chief of Starfleet Operations. One of the top Admirals in Starfleet. I'd say that gives him the right.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:59 PM   #1866
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
IIRC, if an Admiral has command of a ship, they are still referred to as Admiral. Kirk actually demoted himself in rank. That's the difference. He expected to KEEP command of the Enterprise.
How do you demote yourself?
Kirk was Chief of Starfleet Operations. One of the top Admirals in Starfleet. I'd say that gives him the right.
I really don't think the military works that way...

Which is why I'm not too hung-up on Kirk being a captain, because the shows and movies have used the "military" set-up as they see fit.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:11 PM   #1867
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post

We don't know that for sure.
Yeah, I guess we don't.
How old do you think Picard is? He commanded the ship for twenty-two years.
How do you know he commanded it for 22 years?

Most of that stuff is fan speculation or the kind from the Okudas which has no actual basis in any script.

The most you can really gather is that he was captain when he had to deliver the news to Beverly and Wesley about Jack's death. Everything else is made up.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:13 PM   #1868
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Ryan8bit wrote: View Post

Yeah, I guess we don't.
How old do you think Picard is? He commanded the ship for twenty-two years.
How do you know he commanded it for 22 years?

Most of that stuff is fan speculation or the kind from the Okudas which has no actual basis in any script.

The most you can really gather is that he was captain when he had to deliver the news to Beverly and Wesley about Jack's death. Everything else is made up.
The Battle mentions his command of the Stargazer lasting from 2333 to 2355.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:13 PM   #1869
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

In MASH, Hawkeye and Trapper and BJ Honeycutt aren't going to be allowed to break the rules and piss off higher ups if they were following a true military structure they'd be in prison no matter how talented they are. Likewise, Klinger wouldn't be allowed to walk around in a dress for five years, they'd drop him in a psychiatric ward and forget about him.

In TNG, Riker wouldn't be allowed to turn down commands time and again no matter how badly he wanted to stay on the Enterprise. They also wouldn't allow a child on the bridge performing duties of more experienced, trained officers.

Any entertainment would fail miserably if we put in under the microscope we put Star Trek under.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:16 PM   #1870
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
The Battle mentions his command of the Stargazer lasting from 2333 to 2355.
Is that on a screen graphic then? Because it's not mentioned in dialog.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:16 PM   #1871
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Picard was born in 2305. As of the Stargazer incident (when he took command for the first time), I think he was 28.
Correct. The thing we don't know is if he was immediately promoted to captain as well, or was only promoted to commander, then captain after he proved his competency/excellence over a period of time. Doesn't really matter, though. He was put in full command of a starship at age 28 with all the responsibilities of a starship captain, and that's the point.

Tryla Scott was the youngest to attain the actual rank of captain in the old universe. (But I don't think her age when she got the rank was said on screen.)

The age thing is such an old chestnut, and there are nits to pick at both ends of the specturm. Kirk was feeling old at 53 in TWOK, and he was basically put out to pasture at 62 in TUC. However, Picard was already 59 when he took command of the Enterprise in 2364. It's hard to rationalize Kirk being old compared to that.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:17 PM   #1872
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
That doesn't make it right!
We're not going to be able to convince them. They enjoy the new films and are willing to accept its new creator's vision of Star Trek characters, settings and technology.
Is that any different to "willing to accept" episodes like "Spock's Brain", the interpretations of the K/S fanfic of the 70s and 80s, Gold Key's bizarro comics, the hundreds of licensed novels, Filmation's TAS, several companies' not-quite-Trek RPGs that tweaked ST into a "battle" because exploration was too boring, switching Saaviks in midstream, "Myriad Universe" novellas and comics, the fanfilms of the recent decade...?

IDIC. Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:18 PM   #1873
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Franklin wrote: View Post
The age thing is such an old chestnut, and there are nits to pick at both ends of the specturm. Kirk was feeling old at 53 in TWOK, and he was basically put out to pasture at 62 in TUC. However, Picard was already 59 when he took command of the Enterprise in 2364. It's hard to rationalize Kirk being old compared to that.
I think Starfleet forced Kirk out (just my speculation).
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Old May 14 2013, 10:21 PM   #1874
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Is that any different to "willing to accept" episodes like "Spock's Brain"....
"Spock's Brain" is a masterpiece.... /SARC
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Old May 14 2013, 10:21 PM   #1875
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

How do you demote yourself?
Kirk was Chief of Starfleet Operations. One of the top Admirals in Starfleet. I'd say that gives him the right.
I really don't think the military works that way...

Which is why I'm not too hung-up on Kirk being a captain, because the shows and movies have used the "military" set-up as they see fit.
If we're talking TMP, he went to Admiral Nogura (presumably his superior) and made his case for taking back the Enterprise. Kirk ultimately got Nogura's permission, if not his blessing.

If we're not talking TMP, I don't know what the hell we're talking about.
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