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Old May 14 2013, 03:15 AM   #151
Third Nacelle
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

I think it's sort of unreasonable to expect all Vulcans to behave exactly the same and all be perfect models of emotional suppression and self-control. T'Pol is very flawed, but that doesn't maker her less Vulcan any more than bipolar disorder would make you or me less human. Enterprise is far from my favorite series, but I love that they gave Vulcans some depth and diversity.
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Old May 14 2013, 04:38 AM   #152
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Don't forget Sybok! We saw lunatic emotional Vulcans way back in the TOS movie era.
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Old May 14 2013, 04:54 AM   #153
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Also Sarek, at least after he got Bendii Syndrome.

I can kind of see what ENT was trying to do with the Vulcans, but to me, they just seem too... shifty, I guess? A bit too much like Romulans.
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Old May 14 2013, 06:53 AM   #154
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
I think it's sort of unreasonable to expect all Vulcans to behave exactly the same and all be perfect models of emotional suppression and self-control. T'Pol is very flawed, but that doesn't maker her less Vulcan any more than bipolar disorder would make you or me less human. Enterprise is far from my favorite series, but I love that they gave Vulcans some depth and diversity.
There's a difference between expecting them all to be the same and expecting them not to be contradictory to themselves. Ryva's right, they are very Romulanesque in Enterprise.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:11 AM   #155
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Isn't that somewhat explained in season 4?
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Old May 14 2013, 11:47 AM   #156
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

R. Star wrote: View Post
Archer then expresses concern that by taking a prisoner they'll incite the Nausicans to be aggressive... yeah if you're not careful they'll start attacking your cargo ships or something. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that torturing the Nausican for information was the right thing to do, but these are YOUR people Archer. Take the prisoner, promise the Fortunate you'll take care of things, call up Forrest and have him file a diplomatic protest to their government. That's how you handle things.
Oh yeah, and also, start upgrading the other Starfleet ships to warp 5 as well, so that they can go on cargo escort missions into deep space to prevent further attacks. Having only just one other (the Columbia) only four years after Enterprise is foolish; there should have been more, and all of the other ships should have been upgraded to warp 5 after the warp 5 engine had been finally tested and built.

Ryva Brall wrote: View Post
Yeah... I kind of feel like Enterprise is Star Trek for Dummies. Compared to the other series, this one seems decidedly low-brow; like it's catering to a dumber-than-average audience whose interest is only held by fisticuffs and boobs. I don't need every episode of Trek to be deep, philosophical stuff, but I don't appreciate shows that treat their viewers like idiots, or that assume they won't catch things like lazy writing or blatant attempts at titillation.

Granted, most of television seems to be headed this way. But somehow, I expect better from Trek. They should know that their viewers are smarter than that.
Unlike you, I have problems with bad episodes, NOT the whole show itself. That's the difference between myself and most of you (and many other Trekfans.)
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Old May 14 2013, 12:59 PM   #157
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Unlike you, I have problems with bad episodes, NOT the whole show itself. That's the difference between myself and most of you (and many other Trekfans.)
Most of you?
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Old May 14 2013, 02:09 PM   #158
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

The episode shows that Surak most likely merely wanted the Vulcans to suppress their "bad" emotions. He wanted peace and logic, not total emotional suppression.
But the episode also showed how dangerous it can be for people who have grown up in the orthodox Vulcan culture to "let go". It took Spock decades.

About the Vulcans in general, well, they behave more or less like Vulcans. Vulcans have always been a bit arrogant and racist. What's different though is Vulcan politics and as many posters have already said, we learn why the High Command is so unenlightened in the last season.

I am glad that they didn't just do the usual stuff with the Vulcans but actually tried to be different and tell a new stories about them.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:55 PM   #159
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

teacake wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Unlike you, I have problems with bad episodes, NOT the whole show itself. That's the difference between myself and most of you (and many other Trekfans.)
Most of you?
Another person who thinks their opinion should be fact?
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Old May 15 2013, 01:11 AM   #160
Ryva Brall
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Yeah... How many bad episodes is a show required to have for it to qualify as a bad show? I'm not sure I understand the reasoning there....

However, I will concede that I can't say unequivocally that ENT is a bad show, because I haven't seen all of it yet. I just haven't been too impressed by many of the episodes I've seen so far. But I've still got hopes for Season Three. I hear it's pretty great.
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Old May 15 2013, 01:36 AM   #161
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Ryva Brall wrote: View Post
Yeah... How many bad episodes is a show required to have for it to qualify as a bad show? I'm not sure I understand the reasoning there....

However, I will concede that I can't say unequivocally that ENT is a bad show, because I haven't seen all of it yet. I just haven't been too impressed by many of the episodes I've seen so far. But I've still got hopes for Season Three. I hear it's pretty great.
Yeah the first two seasons are basically the definition of unimpressive. Luckily seasons 3 & 4 are awesome.
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Old May 15 2013, 01:57 AM   #162
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

R. Star wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
Unlike you, I have problems with bad episodes, NOT the whole show itself. That's the difference between myself and most of you (and many other Trekfans.)
Most of you?
Another person who thinks their opinion should be fact?
I'm just saying (IMHO) that I as a person solely by myself have no real problem with Enterprise as a whole per se, just the bad episodes. That's all.
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Old May 15 2013, 02:57 AM   #163
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post

Most of you?
Another person who thinks their opinion should be fact?
I'm just saying (IMHO) that I as a person solely by myself have no real problem with Enterprise as a whole per se, just the bad episodes. That's all.
Well the "unlike you" and "most of you(and many other Trek fans)" comments do have a hint of implication, but I'll take you at your word.

Though the bad episodes, which in my own opinion constitute a majority of the first two seasons and are definitely present in the last two, are a part of the whole of Enterprise and have to be factored in. You can't just set aside the distasteful parts of anything then speak of the whole as if they're not part of it. That's like saying those people in prison are good except for the criminals.
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Old May 15 2013, 03:50 AM   #164
Ryva Brall
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Itchin' for a good fight, are we, Star? I agree with you, though. A TV show is, after all, the sum of its episodes. When the bad episodes outweigh the good, you have to wonder at some point if the show itself actually is all that great.

Rogue Planet:

Enterprise finds a rogue planet and meets a group of aliens, who are hunting a mysterious creature. Also, Archer really digs blondes.

What the what? None of this made any sense. Here's why.

First of all, this rogue planet. It had no sunlight, so how could it support all this lush plant life, or have a breathable atmosphere? Do the plants somehow live without photosynthesis? I don't get it. Why did it need to be a rogue planet, anyway? It lent absolutely nothing to the plot, except the title of the episode.

Also, these wraith things. They're shape-shifters, right? But wait. There can't be shape-shifters on a planet only a few months from Earth, because someone would have bothered to tell Odo. But for much of early DS9, he believes himself to be the only shape-shifter, and everyone thinks they're just a myth. Either Enterprise keeps terrible records of their travels, or this is a big fat continuity fail.

While I was watching this entire episode, I was hoping against hope that this wraith appearing as a woman would turn out to be what the Eska said they were -- a dangerous animal that tricks you into seeing what you want to see, and then straight up eating your face off! Kind of like the salt vampire in TOS's "The Man Trap". That would've been cool. Instead, we got Changelings. Basically. Oh, and apparently hunting will no longer be a common practice on Earth in about forty years or so. Better sell all your duck calls while you still can, guys.

My favorite line belongs to Archer: "Have you ever known me to do anything foolish?" Ahahaha! Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder. HAHAHAHA!!

Oh, before I forget, do you think the Eska really did know that the wraiths were sentient? Or do you think they actually believed what they were saying?

Next up: Ferengi. A couple centuries ahead of schedule. This show has zero respect for established Trek history.
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Old May 15 2013, 08:10 AM   #165
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

R. Star wrote: View Post
Though the bad episodes, which in my own opinion constitute a majority of the first two seasons and are definitely present in the last two, are a part of the whole of Enterprise and have to be factored in. You can't just set aside the distasteful parts of anything then speak of the whole as if they're not part of it.
No no, you don't set them aside, you embrace them. You love them like a really ugly dog where you secretly love it more because of its ugliness. This is the secret to maintaining an infatuation with Trek in the face of all naysayers.
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