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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.30%
A 161 21.58%
A- 101 13.54%
B+ 82 10.99%
B 58 7.77%
B- 27 3.62%
C+ 40 5.36%
C 38 5.09%
C- 25 3.35%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 36 4.83%
Voters: 746. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 14 2013, 07:08 PM   #1831
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
please do not start with excuses for bad storytelling...
Trek fans have been making excuses for bad storytelling since the 1960's.
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Old May 14 2013, 07:41 PM   #1832
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
please do not start with excuses for bad storytelling...
Trek fans have been making excuses for bad storytelling since the 1960's.
That doesn't make it right!
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Old May 14 2013, 07:51 PM   #1833
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

This popped up on Google for me. Despite the title and contents, it's not really *about* Star Trek, but rather it's this unbelievably bitter kneejerk diatribe about how "true geekdom is dead." He simply uses STID and JJ as a sort of focal point for his argument.

I won't ruin it for you guys, but honestly, it has to be seen to be believed. It's just DRIPPING with vitriol and pomposity.

http://www.chicagonow.com/internet-r...-the-darkness/

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Old May 14 2013, 07:51 PM   #1834
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
That doesn't make it right!
We're not going to be able to convince them. They enjoy the new films and are willing to accept its new creator's vision of Star Trek characters, settings and technology.
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Old May 14 2013, 07:54 PM   #1835
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
please do not start with excuses for bad storytelling...
Trek fans have been making excuses for bad storytelling since the 1960's.
That doesn't make it right!
So what?

It does make attempts to compare nuTrek unfavorably to oldTrek wrong on this score.

Frankly, someone could come along and produce an Oscar-winning Star Trek film that was internationally hailed as a masterpiece and knocked Avatar off to become the most successful film in history...and some trek fans would call it "an okay film but bad Star Trek" because it was different and didn't respect "canon."

(Okay, that's obviously a hypothetical - I don't think anyone could produce an Oscar-caliber Trek movie.)
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Old May 14 2013, 07:58 PM   #1836
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
(Okay, that's obviously a hypothetical - I don't think anyone could produce an Oscar-caliber Trek movie.)
Well, technically ST09 did win an Oscar.
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Old May 14 2013, 07:59 PM   #1837
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ok I've read both the reviews earlier in the thread. The negative one was far too negative Ok I've read both the reviews earlier in the thread. The negative one was far too negative but did make some valid points. The positive one skates over the flaws and enjoyed it for what it was. I'm somewhere in the middle. I enjoyed the movie but, like Trek 2009, it could have been improved considerably in my eyes if they had tweaked some of the sillier moments to have more internal logic.

The main things I agree with are:

"The Klingon homeworld Qo’noS apparently has no sensor defense system. A top secret shipyard building a next generation warship is completely and totally unguarded.


Khan is able to beam himself from Earth to Qo’noS using a personal hyperwarp transporter device. The fact that such a device exists calls into question the need for space ships at all. The device can be carried in your hands, and it can beam you sixteen light years without a problem. The film actually abuses the hell out of the transporter; there’s a reason why the transporter is generally limited in the Star Trek universe*.


A bigger problem moving forward, though, is this: death has been cured at the end of this film. Khan’s blood can revive the deceased.


The good news is that the cast remains the strongest part of the new Star Trek franchise, and they’re probably locked in for another movie."

It's also worth noting that Earth doesn't seem to have any functional defences or active security forces. Marcus could have used the Pre-fix code.

Plus, I'm still not sure I understand what was going on with the bodies in the bombs or why Marcus needed Khan at all. Khan would have been far more interesting if he'd recruited some other mercenaries to commit terrorist acts against the Klingon Empire and the focus became tracking him down (similar to the Enterprise episode with the augments) leading eventually to the Klingon homeworld.

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post

Trek fans have been making excuses for bad storytelling since the 1960's.
That doesn't make it right!
So what?

It does make attempts to compare nuTrek unfavorably to oldTrek wrong on this score.

Frankly, someone could come along and produce an Oscar-winning Star Trek film that was internationally hailed as a masterpiece and knocked Avatar off to become the most successful film in history...and some trek fans would call it "an okay film but bad Star Trek" because it was different and didn't respect "canon."
I think I'm holding NuTrek up to the same standards as old Trek but old Trek certainly had its fair share of ludicrous moments. I did have an issue with how silly it was to promote Kirk the jerk so quickly and for no obvious reason other than he got lucky and, you know what, they owned up to it and put a well-received scene in this movie to redress the stupidity of that decision. If the old guard had not pointed out that the emperor had no clothes they might have missed an excellent opportunity to develop the character into something more rounded.

My issue with the Trek tech is that they have opened up a can of worms and they can't really go back so they have to overlook obvious solutions to the problems they create like basic security protocols that we have in the 21st century such as ID to get on board a top secret base, sensors to detect unknown transports, automated alarms, CCTV, automated security systems to block off the ship by sealing doors, cancelling gravity, raising internal force fields etc, or if you are a villain, why be coy, beam intruders back out into space by scanning the area into which they've just beamed (they can beam 72 missiles but not 2 intruders?).
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Last edited by Pauln6; May 14 2013 at 08:20 PM.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:03 PM   #1838
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

What ever happened to that Kelvan engine mod that could do warp 300, anyway?

And why didn't the Federation figure out how to use those Omicron Ceti spores to cure all disease and injury?
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Old May 14 2013, 08:05 PM   #1839
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Or all the Cytherian information that was set to change everything for the Federation forever midway through TNG, which they seemed to forget a week later.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:09 PM   #1840
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Or all the Cytherian information that was set to change everything for the Federation forever midway through TNG, which they seemed to forget a week later.
These people won't listen. They have what they believe, refuse to listen to anything that goes against it, and fight back using ad hominem attacks on anybody who says otherwise.

Par for the course here.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:22 PM   #1841
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Lol - yeah - I have a core of about 12 TOS episodes that I hold up as masterpieces. Most of the rest is just entertaining guff.

Voyager made a lot of boo boos too. Kes went back in time and warned the crew about the Krenim and then wasn't even on board during the Krenim episodes and everybody forgot the important information she gave them about the temporal weapons.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:25 PM   #1842
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
please do not start with excuses for bad storytelling...
Trek fans have been making excuses for bad storytelling since the 1960's.
That doesn't make it right!
I guess I'm just a fan of Star Trek warts and all. Plus I think it's silly to condemn one version for mistakes it makes, when those same mistakes have been there from the beginning and been in every iteration.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:51 PM   #1843
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
Or all the Cytherian information that was set to change everything for the Federation forever midway through TNG, which they seemed to forget a week later.
These people won't listen. They have what they believe, refuse to listen to anything that goes against it, and fight back using ad hominem attacks on anybody who says otherwise.

Par for the course here.
Let's stick to Star Trek in here, and leave allusions, references, etc. to any fan groups called "those people" somewhere outside the forum.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:52 PM   #1844
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
That doesn't make it right!
We're not going to be able to convince them. They enjoy the new films and are willing to accept its new creator's vision of Star Trek characters, settings and technology.
Oh no... don't get me wrong...

I hated the reboot in 2009. Really... everything was awefull about this film (for me - and I can perfectly live and accept that people liked it).
From the black hole huge plot holes (Black hole = time travel, when the script needs it and then... shredder... guess what... when the script needs it to be), fatal cinematography (not one sharp or quiet shot, 50% of the film are lense flares), down to the stupid excuse for a plot (bridging absurd action scenes with each other... Sulu's fencing... my God...). It sucked. Really... it just completely sucked.
It deserved the F I rated it.

INTO DARKNESS works so much better. The plot is dense (at least in the first half... the movie dives down from the point Khan reveals himself), the cinematography is so much better (as if they changed the whole camera team), and in scenes it feels and looks like STAR TREK. Art direction is wonderful, and the visuals are stunning.
Is it an entertaining film. Yes!
Is it a good film? Average at best.
Is it a good STAR TREK film? No, defineatly not.

But if you can detach you logical cortex from the "fun" cortex, you will be able to enjoy the visuals.

Maybe it is because I went into it with -100 expectations after the huge disappointment the last film was for me... I don't know.

I rate DARKNESS a healthy "C".

Eventhough I really hate 2009.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:13 PM   #1845
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
Is it a good STAR TREK film? No, defineatly not.
What makes a good Star Trek film?

Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post

But if you can detach you logical cortex from the "fun" cortex...
I've been doing this since the mid-70's because seldom has Trek and "logical" deserved to be mentioned in the same sentence.
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