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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 14 2013, 07:19 PM   #211
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

I think maybe we should start on something simpler for them. Coloured cards for instance.
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Old May 14 2013, 07:29 PM   #212
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
I'm still kind of baffled how big the Kelvin was, as it was supposed to have been built in the pre-timestream-split prime universe and there has never been any evidence in any iteration of canonical Trek that Starfleet built ships that big during that era. THIS almost implies that there may have been a split prior to Nero's arrival.
I took it simply as evidence of reimagining the look of the Prime Universe, which, frankly, was always going to be necessary in a film today about Kirk's era. In this case, the filmmakers were pre-Pike and pre-incursion, so, with the Kelvin sequence, they let a little something peek out from behind the fig leaf.

I'm rather glad they did, because the Kelvin sequence was the only part of STXI where wonky theories, about how Nero's incursion must be responsible for all the minor differences between nuTrek and first-run TOS, are all but definitively ruled out. It is only in this part of the film that we see a pure, unadulterated reimagining of Star Trek, and boy did it rock!

I just think of this as something like the recasting of the main characters. Since, relatively speaking, it is inconsequential whether or not the Kelvin sequence fits perfectly into the space between ENT and first-run TOS, I see it on that level as something on par with a cosmetic change of the Prime Universe.

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Old May 14 2013, 09:10 PM   #213
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
Another prove is the shot that zooms in on Kirk standing in front of the main window/viewer when the Enterprise is crippled in the Kronos system. No way the ship is longer than 400 meters.
Erm... what? Look again: CLICK

Window = huge Enterprise.
If I had the time I could hold at least a dozent of arguments and screenshots against it...

But it is a common problem with TREK. Remember how they sized the Galaxy-Class in Season 1 of TNG? The Oberth was almost as big as the Galaxy-Class... same with the Constellation class.

Shuttlebay of the nu-prise changes size in 2009. When Pike's shuttle leaves they bay above Vulcan, the bay doors are wide open, yet the shuttle almost narrowly fits through.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:13 PM   #214
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

We get extended scenes taking place in the shuttlebay in Into Darkness, we get a much better idea of it's size, and it's still huge.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:19 PM   #215
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
We get extended scenes taking place in the shuttlebay in Into Darkness, we get a much better idea of it's size, and it's still huge.
The shuttle deck is also huge in Star Trek: The Video Game.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:20 PM   #216
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Plus the side bays for larger ships.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:24 PM   #217
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Xavier_Storma wrote: View Post
Shuttlebay of the nu-prise changes size in 2009. When Pike's shuttle leaves they bay above Vulcan, the bay doors are wide open, yet the shuttle almost narrowly fits through.
It's the same size in both shot, it's only the camera that's moved from a long distance shot to a close-up. From a few pages ago...
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Old May 14 2013, 09:36 PM   #218
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Another thing I don't get is the placement of the nacelle pylons. They sit too low and too far back on the secondary hull, go straight into that cavernous shuttle bay, and yet there is no place for the intermix chambers to be positioned from engineering. Doesn't make any sense.

Still don't know why they didn't keep the articulated clam-shell shuttle bay doors. It looks far too easy to hit those slanted things with a shuttle on the new one like Xavier_Storma pointed out.
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Old May 14 2013, 09:44 PM   #219
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

The nacelles themselves are pretty damn big, they may only need superconductors from the warp core to power the machinary inside them that we see when they're opened up in this movie.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:26 PM   #220
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I think maybe we should start on something simpler for them. Coloured cards for instance.
You think they're yellow, but they're really an avocado colour.
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Old May 14 2013, 10:31 PM   #221
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

SonicRanger wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I think maybe we should start on something simpler for them. Coloured cards for instance.
You think they're yellow, but they're really an avocado colour.
I've been poorly lately.
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Old May 15 2013, 12:45 AM   #222
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

137th Gebirg wrote: View Post
I'm still kind of baffled how big the Kelvin was, as it was supposed to have been built in the pre-timestream-split prime universe and there has never been any evidence in any iteration of canonical Trek that Starfleet built ships that big during that era. THIS almost implies that there may have been a split prior to Nero's arrival.
Depends on your perspective. If you want to believe that the AltVerse was always different from the start, you can use that to support that theory.

But, if you want to go with what was said by the writers, director, and in the film itself (that the divergence began with the Narada's entrance to the AltVerse and attack on the Kelvin), then you can say that the Kelvin was an experimental testbed unlike any other contemporary and more conventional TOS-type starship at the time, testing out a new larger hull, a new brewgineering and enhanced warp drive, new bridge control systems, new shuttles, etc. Once it held up as reasonably as could be expected against the massive and powerful new threat posed by the Narada, Starfleet decided to model its subsequent starships on that design (and with specs reverse engineered from the Narada recordings) in an arms race against this new type of Romulan ship. They had no idea it was a rogue ship from an alternate future at first, they probably just thought it was an incredibly advanced new Romulan design.

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I'm looking at an HD screencap of the damaged saucer portion from the movie and there are up to 4-5 distinct layers showing through.
Link?
Here, I made this. There are five full decks on the rim of the saucer, with a half deck above and below for piping and machinery and so forth. You can see the giant 5-Deck impulse control(?) center where the explosion rips off the aft section of the saucer.



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Old May 15 2013, 01:16 AM   #223
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

^Where did you find that cross-section?
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Old May 15 2013, 01:32 AM   #224
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
^Where did you find that cross-section?
I have no idea where it originated from, but I found it here (the link is in the image above as well) through Google Image Search. Strangely though, I can't find the Imageshack link on that page to track it back any further than that.
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Old May 15 2013, 01:49 AM   #225
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Where did the writers, director, the film say that the Kelvin was an experimental testbed unlike any other ship, and if it worked so well, why didn't the Prime Universe go with that design?
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