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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old May 13 2013, 09:27 PM   #16
xvicente
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
If we changed nothing else other than Picard coming to his senses, sending Data back and sacrificing himself.
The movie would end with two Datas? ugh.
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Old May 14 2013, 08:52 AM   #17
Xavier_Storma
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
Ten years on, I still think the best way to improve Nemesis is to destroy every copy, and make sure Stuart Baird never directs another film, and John Logan never writes another screenplay. Sadly, only one of those three has come to pass.
There are people who like this movie... I do not troll around to destroy every copy of the IMHO collossal disappointment that was TREK XI, and I am perfectly happy with people enjoying this film...
So why troll around here? You don't like it? Ignore it.
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Old May 14 2013, 01:54 PM   #18
Dukhat
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

How is he trolling? The OP asked if his idea of a different ending would have made Nemesis better. The general consensus was that nothing would make Nemesis better, and his suggestion was that Nemesis should be forgotten, however facetiously he put it. He has a right to his opinion about Nemesis just as you have a right to your opinion about Star Trek XI. The only difference is that this thread is specifically about Nemesis, not XI.
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Old May 14 2013, 03:24 PM   #19
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

My biggest problem with Nemesis is it felt like they were trying to copy ST:WOK. And it failed big time. Production values were good. Some scenes could have been cut, while others should not have been cut. And they made it so obvious that Data was going to pull a Spock. The battle dragged on too long. At least they didn't have 2 like ST:WOK.
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Old May 14 2013, 03:38 PM   #20
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

One thing I find hard to believe with Nemesis is that it took Troi and Riker 4-5 years to get married after getting back together in Insurrection. I kinda wish the film had had them married and already onboard the Titan, I'm sure the audience could wrap their heads around the passage of time and off-screen character development.

As for who dies at the end, I was alright with Data sacrificing himself for Picard. But he should have stayed dead, the whole B-4 thing was such a cop out and should have been removed.

There are lots of other little bits that should have been changed or explained, but the biggy has to be Data 2.0.
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Old May 14 2013, 03:44 PM   #21
marksound
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

I'm not usually one to pick the movies apart. I try to see them for what they are, each given its own context, but ...

If Shinzon had been Picard's illegitimate son, the "if you had lived my life" crap might have made more sense. To me, "You abandoned us!" plays better than "I was supposed to be you!" Still a little Khan-ish, but it could work.

Substitute an incurable genetic disorder for the cloning malfunction or whatever that was and let it play into the rage and derangement. "YOU DID THIS TO ME!"

Lose the whole B4 nonsense. It had already been done to death with Lore.

A different B plot--any B plot--would have been better. How about preventing the Remans from taking over Romulus after killing off the Senate?
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Old May 14 2013, 06:15 PM   #22
Gaith
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

I saw a fan edit a few years back that completely removed B4. The movie was indeed improved, and was over faster to boot, but I was still left with a "blah" feeling at its conclusion.


cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
Ten years on, I still think the best way to improve Nemesis is to destroy every copy, and make sure Stuart Baird never directs another film, and John Logan never writes another screenplay. Sadly, only one of those three has come to pass.
Silva is just as incomprehensible and lazily written as Shinzon!
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Old May 15 2013, 12:08 AM   #23
JarodRussell
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

I think they film should have been in reversed order. Let it begin with the Enterprise in drydock, and end with Riker's and Troi's wedding.
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Old May 15 2013, 01:20 AM   #24
E-DUB
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

Instead of Shinzon trying to destroy Earth, he should have tried to destroy Romulus, after all that's who he was supposed to have hated. Then Picard would be risking his ship on behalf of a traditional enemy who had stolen his DNA to create the very man who was in a position to destroy them. It could close with the implication that a new era in Federation/Romulan relations was at hand.
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Old May 15 2013, 03:40 AM   #25
wingsabre
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

Honestly what would have made the movie better would be a different villain. Shinzon was poorly contrived. It took too much explaining to make sense, and the age difference was poorly explained too. The whole thing was more of a distraction than a central plot.

I think it would have been better if Sela were the main villain. They don't even have to go back and rehash the past episode in great detail. Just have it so that she lost all power and was imprisoned for the failed attempted invasion of Vulcan, and blames Picard and Data. We could also add Spock too, but whatever. What made TWoK's plot so accessible was it was basically a revenge plot.

Data's survival would not really change or benefit the overall plot which was horrible.
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Old May 15 2013, 12:27 PM   #26
Nociod
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

Been so long since I've seen the movie, but I remember not liking the sand-buggy scene, so I would like to have seen that gone.

The B4 plot should also have been scrapped. If they absolutely had to have a "data clone" as well, then they could have had the Tal Shiar steal Lore's parts, and assembled him, formatting his hard drive. Data could be captured during an away team mission, and they could replace him with Lore.

Obviously, this would put the movie in a whole another direction. The problem is that the story we got wasn't any good, and doesnt really make any sense.
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Old May 15 2013, 07:23 PM   #27
ConRefit79
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

I used to think B4 could have been a bad attempt by the Romulans to duplicate Data. But like Shinzon, they did a poor job of it.

BTW, is Shinzon just a made up name or was it derived from elsewhere?
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Old May 16 2013, 04:10 AM   #28
judgeroy
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

I lurk around here a lot and don't normally post as most of my thoughts have already been said, several times usually. However, I have to barge in here. I watched this movie on opening day, and frankly, I enjoyed to movie, until the end. To answer to OP's question, for me, YES sacrificing Picard would have saved the movie for me. It left me with a such a bad taste that I can't watch this movie to this day. Plus, It has been said that part of Data's make up is hydraulic, sorry folks, but hydraulics won't last in a vaccum any better than humans.
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Old May 16 2013, 06:43 AM   #29
cardinal biggles
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

ConRefit79 wrote: View Post
My biggest problem with Nemesis is it felt like they were trying to copy ST:WOK. And it failed big time. Production values were good. Some scenes could have been cut, while others should not have been cut. And they made it so obvious that Data was going to pull a Spock. The battle dragged on too long. At least they didn't have 2 like ST:WOK.
The biggest failure in their attempt to copy TWOK is that while they try to go for the same emotional gut-punch by killing a beloved character, it lacks the potential for finality that TWOK had in 1982. Yeah, we all know how it turned out two years later, but at the time there was no guarantee Nimoy would come back. Nick Meyer's initial cut of the film had no reassuring ending shot of the torpedo casket safe on Genesis; that was added by Harve Bennett in post-production.

Fast-forward to 2002, and we have Data's "out" practically gift-wrapped for us from the moment they find him in pieces on the planet. If there was a remote chance that NEM wouldn't suck, and it would make enough money, and Paramount would greenlight another one, Berman wanted a way to get Data back without trying too hard.

Gaith wrote: View Post
cardinal biggles wrote: View Post
Ten years on, I still think the best way to improve Nemesis is to destroy every copy, and make sure Stuart Baird never directs another film, and John Logan never writes another screenplay. Sadly, only one of those three has come to pass.
Silva is just as incomprehensible and lazily written as Shinzon!
But Javier Bardem is so magnetic in his portrayal that you sort of forgive the mess, at least while you're watching it. Sadly, couldn't say the same for Tom Hardy, at least not in this role.

E-DUB wrote: View Post
Instead of Shinzon trying to destroy Earth, he should have tried to destroy Romulus, after all that's who he was supposed to have hated.
This. A gaping flaw in the film's logic that a first-grader should have spotted, to say nothing of the series' longtime producer, one of its stars, and its Academy Award-nominated screenwriter. Pathetic.

wingsabre wrote: View Post
I think it would have been better if Sela were the main villain. They don't even have to go back and rehash the past episode in great detail. Just have it so that she lost all power and was imprisoned for the failed attempted invasion of Vulcan, and blames Picard and Data. We could also add Spock too, but whatever. What made TWoK's plot so accessible was it was basically a revenge plot.
Not this. Sorry, but Denise Crosby can't act her way out of a wet paper bag, and expecting the weight of the movie to at least partially rest on her shoulders is foolhardy.
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Old May 17 2013, 06:10 PM   #30
Xavier_Storma
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Re: Would this make Nemsis' ending more satisfying.

E-DUB wrote: View Post
Instead of Shinzon trying to destroy Earth, he should have tried to destroy Romulus, after all that's who he was supposed to have hated. Then Picard would be risking his ship on behalf of a traditional enemy who had stolen his DNA to create the very man who was in a position to destroy them. It could close with the implication that a new era in Federation/Romulan relations was at hand.
That was Shinzon's problem. He did not only want to execute revenge on the Romulans, but on everyone because he felt abandoned. Especially on Picard. His megalomania was eventually his downfall.

I think Hardy did a great job.
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