RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,341
Posts: 5,444,806
Members: 24,965
Currently online: 569
Newest member: MattSmith786

TrekToday headlines

Trek UglyDolls First Look
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

New Star Trek Select Action Figure
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

Trek Actors In Elsa & Fred
By: T'Bonz on Oct 29

The Red Shirt Diaries #9
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Greenwood Cast In Truth
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Cumberbatch In Talks For Strange
By: T'Bonz on Oct 28

Two New Trek Bobble Heads
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27

Meaney On Playing Historical Figure Durant
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27

Saldana: Balancing Work And Motherhood
By: T'Bonz on Oct 27

Cumberbatch In Wax
By: T'Bonz on Oct 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 14 2013, 01:52 AM   #31
Brown-Eyed Ghoul
Vice Admiral
 
Brown-Eyed Ghoul's Avatar
 
Location: scotpens
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

Caligula wrote: View Post
. . . "The Alternative Factor," for all its flaws, is still an episode I can get behind. I don't even consider it the weakest Season 1 episode. That dishonor goes to "Operation: Annihilate!" and its fake vomit monsters on strings.
Hey, I liked the flying fake vomit. At least they were a credibly "alien" lifeform and not a celebrity lawyer wearing a shower curtain.
__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
Brown-Eyed Ghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 01:59 AM   #32
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

I always called them "flying pancakes."
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 02:13 AM   #33
Geoff Peterson
Fleet Admiral
 
Geoff Peterson's Avatar
 
Location: 20 feet from an outlet
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

Christopher wrote: View Post
I always called them "flying pancakes."
My sisters and I called them "hotcakes" (With an "Eva Gabor" accent)
__________________
Nerys Myk
Geoff Peterson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 02:23 AM   #34
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

When my sister and I were kids, we referred to "The Galileo Seven"'s giant anthropoids as "gorilly-monsters."
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 02:48 AM   #35
GourdShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
GourdShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: making faces with BoredShipCapt'n
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

Christopher wrote: View Post
I always called them "flying pancakes."
My college roommate called them "flying pizzas."

scotpens wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
. . . Yes, it was foolishness, but that was the point -- the Platonians were a decadent culture who got their jollies by forcing people to humiliate themselves with absurd antics.
Yes, I think we all understood that. But we didn't need to see Kirk and Spock forced to perform degrading antics for 45 goddamn minutes. "Plato's Stepchildren" was another example of barely 30 minutes' worth of story padded out to a full hour.
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh..... bitter dregs.
GourdShipCapt'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 02:59 AM   #36
Brown-Eyed Ghoul
Vice Admiral
 
Brown-Eyed Ghoul's Avatar
 
Location: scotpens
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I always called them "flying pancakes."
My college roommate called them "flying pizzas."
If those things were pizzas, they must have been made by a drunken pizza chef.

__________________
“All the universe or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?”
Brown-Eyed Ghoul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 03:15 AM   #37
GourdShipCapt'n
Commodore
 
GourdShipCapt'n's Avatar
 
Location: making faces with BoredShipCapt'n
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

scotpens wrote: View Post
BoredShipCapt'n wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
I always called them "flying pancakes."
My college roommate called them "flying pizzas."
If those things were pizzas, they must have been made by a drunken pizza chef.

Well, my roommate wasn't very bright.... Otherwise he could have annihilated them.
GourdShipCapt'n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 04:08 AM   #38
ZapBrannigan
Fleet Captain
 
ZapBrannigan's Avatar
 
Location: New York State
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

Maurice wrote: View Post
Which is not "in accord" with Solow's account. Leaving after a morning of shooting isn't the same as "the morning he was scheduled to begin work."

"HERB: ...the morning he was scheduled to begin work, November 16, 1966, John Drew Barrymore disappeared, ignoring his role, his moral obligation, and his contract."

It is in accord. You can't disappear unless you have first appeared. Brown's "after lunch" phrasing might be incorrect, but both accounts indicate that Barrymore reported to the studio that morning. Both accounts might be wrong, of course; I wasn't there.
ZapBrannigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 04:24 AM   #39
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
View Maurice's Twitter Profile
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

Too easy.

disappear |ˌdisəˈpi(ə)r|
verb
• (of a person) go missing or (in coded political language) be killed : the family disappeared after being taken into custody.

But I'm done arguing with you, because you're more interested in being "right" than being correct.
__________________
* * *
"The road to hell is paved with works-in-progress."
—Philip Roth
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 05:29 AM   #40
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

This episode is what an Ed Woods directed episode would have been like.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 05:41 AM   #41
Warped9
Admiral
 
Warped9's Avatar
 
Location: Brockville, Ontario, Canada
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

If you let the viewer in on the secret of what's going on with the two Lazurus before the characters figure it out then you make the heroes look stupid. The idea is for the viewer to follow the heroes trying figure out what's going on. It's a revelation for the viewer as well as the characters.

Yeah, the science is wonky, but the point is to deliver a tangible sense of drama and jeopardy rather than a hard science dessertation.

Re: "Plato's Stepchildren." Yeah, the antics were embarrassing and humiliating to the heroes because that's the whole point of the scene, to show how degenerate the Platonians are. Hell, today people openly humiliate themselves on television without any apparent regard for how asinine they look. They seem to have no genuine self-awareness or even self-respect. And because it's in the real world they're publicly humiliating themselves far more than what we see in this TOS episode. TOS' heroes were bullied by immoral degenerates rather than willingly denigrating themselves.
__________________
STAR TREK: 1964-1991, 2013-?
Warped9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 06:54 AM   #42
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Which is not "in accord" with Solow's account. Leaving after a morning of shooting isn't the same as "the morning he was scheduled to begin work."

"HERB: ...the morning he was scheduled to begin work, November 16, 1966, John Drew Barrymore disappeared, ignoring his role, his moral obligation, and his contract."

It is in accord. You can't disappear unless you have first appeared. Brown's "after lunch" phrasing might be incorrect, but both accounts indicate that Barrymore reported to the studio that morning. Both accounts might be wrong, of course; I wasn't there.
Maurice already corrected your error here, but you might also consider Justman's account of Desilu's grievance (through SAG) against Barrymore. The actor's feeble defense was one of forgetfulness, which led to him being barred from work for six months. It's believable that he might have forgotten his obligation and never shown up (though this was unprofessional, and he was suitably punished). It's not believable at Barrymore showed up for half a day and then forgot he had to complete work on the episode.

Inside Star Trek has a few mistakes and hazy memories in it -- enough that I have thought about addressing them in a short article -- but this is not one of them. Brown wasn't there, Justman was, and the archival record supports Justman's version. QED.
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 12:49 PM   #43
TREK_GOD_1
Fleet Captain
 
TREK_GOD_1's Avatar
 
Location: Escaped from Delta Vega
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

Ovation wrote: View Post
This episode is what an Ed Woods directed episode would have been like.
I don't recall anything on the level of dying actors used until the end, men in women's angora sweaters, frightened police officers and giant, hairy wrestlers running through Enterprise halls.

Even Irwin Allen's all time low points was superior to the eternally strange & inept Ed Wood.
__________________
"...to be like God, you have the power to make the world anything you want it to be."
TREK_GOD_1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 02:12 PM   #44
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
"HERB: ...the morning he was scheduled to begin work, November 16, 1966, John Drew Barrymore disappeared, ignoring his role, his moral obligation, and his contract."

It is in accord. You can't disappear unless you have first appeared.
That's too narrow an interpretation. It's not like the studio defined the entire universe of discourse. He was out there in the world, and they'd contacted him before to arrange his guest spot. If he hadn't reported for work that morning, and they tried to locate him and there was no sign of him anywhere they looked -- if nobody, not even his agent, was able to locate him -- then it would be natural to say he had disappeared.

Besides, the first part of that sentence is the telling part. "The morning he was scheduled to begin work." Saying he disappeared in the morning means that he didn't disappear at lunch. And saying "he was scheduled to begin work" indicates that he never actually began work -- he was expected to, but didn't. The sentence is quite clearly stating that he never showed up at all.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 14 2013, 04:56 PM   #45
Spocktoberfest
Captain
 
Spocktoberfest's Avatar
 
Location: Marsden is celebrating Vulcanian Style!
Re: "The Alternative Factor" - Why is it so universally hated?

My biggest problem with Alternative Factor, simply, is when the admiral (sorry I haven't seen it in a while) says the effect was felt all through out the galaxy and beyond. So, the Federation has instataneous communication through the whole galaxy and beyond? Did they switch long distance carriers? That just does not fit for me. Even the anti matter/matter problem is less of a problem for me, although it is still bad. It could be an alternate dimension where two of the same would "cancell" each other out, but that wouldn't be antimatter, so it could be just a term problem there. Doing the fall of the cliff twice was bad, too.
The beard, nuff said.
So, the regular characters did okay and were well acted, but the plot and terms and story flow weren't too good.

BTW, I don't hate it.

My biggest problem with "Plato's Stepchildren" is simply this: Dr. McCoy just whips up powerful telekinesis just like that and no one ever uses it or mentions it again.
__________________
Captain, logic dictates we get drunker than a Denebian slime devil

Last edited by Spocktoberfest; May 14 2013 at 05:47 PM.
Spocktoberfest is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.