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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 12 2013, 11:12 PM   #16
ROBE
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

Ahh but it was an Earth ship. Marcus would have been a bit stupid if he designed a ship that would get blasted by Earth Defense?
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Old May 12 2013, 11:19 PM   #17
anotherdemon
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

I guess a war with the Klingon Empire was moved forward quite a bit. The events in the movie make a pretty good political reason for the Klingon Empire to go to war -- humans illegally landed on homeworld and killed dozens of warriors and knocked out a few patrol vessels.

I bet the next movie is about such (Enterprise will be recalled).
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Old May 12 2013, 11:37 PM   #18
Pauln6
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

ROBE wrote: View Post
Ahh but it was an Earth ship. Marcus would have been a bit stupid if he designed a ship that would get blasted by Earth Defense?
From what I saw, he WAS pretty stupid...

Are you suggesting that Earth defences should be incapable of scanning a crashing earth ship? That they would be unable to detect the single life form on board (don't get me wrong, personally, I think they should NOT be able to detect anybody who isn't wearing a communicator, belt monitor, or injected with a beacon but that genie got out of the bottle decades ago)? That allowing a ship to crash into a city , most likely killing citzens and everybody on board is preferable to just killing everybody on board before it hits or better yet, using surface to air shields or surface to air tractor beams?

LAME.
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Old May 12 2013, 11:55 PM   #19
throwback
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

I think you are in trouble if your grand strategy relies on the tactical and strategic sense of a warlord who fought wars three hundred years before you were born. Think about this - Our nation is facing an existentialist threat from an enemy. An elite intelligence recruits Frederick II of Prussia, or Duke of Wellington, to give advice on how to fight a 21st century military. These men were knowledgeable about what was available to them in their time. However, their time didn't have computers, airplanes, satellites, etc.

If this is your Hail Mary pass, I think you are already screwed and Earth is well on its way to falling. (I find it interesting that when the Federation has engaged in enemies that are on par with or greater than, that the Federation has skirted the edge of total ruination. The only time that the Federation seems to come ahead is when they fight enemies who were already weak to begin with.)
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Old May 13 2013, 03:29 AM   #20
Phily B
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

anotherdemon wrote: View Post
I guess a war with the Klingon Empire was moved forward quite a bit. The events in the movie make a pretty good political reason for the Klingon Empire to go to war -- humans illegally landed on homeworld and killed dozens of warriors and knocked out a few patrol vessels.

I bet the next movie is about such (Enterprise will be recalled).
I hope not, or at least ends with some kind of peace.

I also found that moon around Kronos interesting, it really did look like Praxis but it looked like it'd exploded already.
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Old May 13 2013, 03:33 AM   #21
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Earth will fall

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
Jax wrote: View Post
Also Kahn could of easily started a new Eugenics war if he got his crew free and started making more super humans.
That possibility wasn't even hinted at in the movie.

But it would have been inevitable, really. Augments, by definition, have superior ambition. They can't NOT conquer. They have to do it. It's in their genetic engineering. If Khan was allowed to roam free, you can bet that he'd raise an army and try to take over the Earth, if not the entire Federation. It's just what people like him do.
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Old May 13 2013, 04:46 AM   #22
throwback
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

The last post touches on the issue, are our actions determined by our genes or our actions determined by what we taught and believe? A man can be ambitious without killing and conquering anyone.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:31 AM   #23
Marten
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Re: Earth will fall

Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
trevanian wrote: View Post
Oso,

Another poster in another thread mentioned that the film set up the idea early about the danger of a warp core radiating earth, but that it was ignored after the big end crash. Did that seem to you like something that was left foolishly dangling?

I ask because I've read the end takes place well after this sequence, so you'd figure Frisco would be glowing or the bay would be leaking down into China if there really was a major accident happening (which also show why you shouldn't build starships at the base of a gravity well, but I digress.)
The idea that the Vengeance could radiate San Francisco with it's warp core has never been brought up in the movie, and when the ship crashed into the city it did nothing but destroy some buildings. Which of course still means ten thousands of death victims, but the movie ignored that completely.

However, that was just one brief scene that by no means justifies a tagline such as "Earth will fall".
Ignoring countless deaths is of course a proud TOS-tradition. At least McCoy didn't crack a joke about it.

I still think Khan can be dangerous, 200 years after he was frozen. He is genitically engineered to be better than us, both physically and mentally. He should have no problem with catching up on how wars are fought.

Last edited by Marten; May 13 2013 at 02:41 PM.
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Old May 13 2013, 03:20 PM   #24
trevanian
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
The last post touches on the issue, are our actions determined by our genes or our actions determined by what we taught and believe? A man can be ambitious without killing and conquering anyone.
Not sure if the makers are familiar with Kirk's speech in "TASTE ... ARMAGEDDON" ... y'know, all that 'we're killers but we're not going to kill... today.' Maybe they have superior ambition AND superior willpower, which would offset the ambition or at least keep them from superior bad habits like cracksmoking.
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Old May 13 2013, 03:30 PM   #25
trevanian
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

ROBE wrote: View Post
Ahh but it was an Earth ship. Marcus would have been a bit stupid if he designed a ship that would get blasted by Earth Defense?

US military aircraft broadcast a signal that basically says 'don't shoot it is me' to keep anti-missiles from launching on them when they fly near the nation's capital

(in fact, that is a prime reason some folks think what hit the pentagon on 9/11/2001 was actually a drone or military aircraft, because anything else -- like a commerical jetliner -- would have been shot down automatically.)
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Old May 13 2013, 03:57 PM   #26
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

It's a relief to see that no one can come up with any really significant complaints about the movie itself so far.
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Old May 13 2013, 04:08 PM   #27
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

throwback wrote: View Post
A man can be ambitious without killing and conquering anyone.
A man, yes. Not an Augment. They are a different breed altogether. The drive to conquer and kill is built into them.

And let's face it, we've all seen what Khan is like (both versions). Does that sound like somebody who doesn't want to conquer and kill? He can go on and on about all this 'revenge' crap, but in the end, he does it because he likes it.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:21 PM   #28
beamMe
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
SPOILERS:
Earth will fall because, despite there being a space battle only 200,000 Km away, Starfleet security took no action to intervene. Earth will fall because, despite having a defence grid (mentioned in ST09 but also seen in TMP) nobody bothers to activate it to stop a ship with only one life sign on board from hitting a city and killing thousands of people. Earth will fall because people that stupid deserve everything they get.
Since you mentioned TMP; were was the fleet in that one?
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Old May 13 2013, 08:25 PM   #29
trevanian
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

beamMe wrote: View Post
Pauln6 wrote: View Post
SPOILERS:
Earth will fall because, despite there being a space battle only 200,000 Km away, Starfleet security took no action to intervene. Earth will fall because, despite having a defence grid (mentioned in ST09 but also seen in TMP) nobody bothers to activate it to stop a ship with only one life sign on board from hitting a city and killing thousands of people. Earth will fall because people that stupid deserve everything they get.
Since you mentioned TMP; were was the fleet in that one?
If you go by what's said in the movie, they are far enough out that nobody can get recalled fast enough to intercept (this is in part because vger is coming at a sustained speed - 7.6? -probably higher than that of starships, which had a top cruising speed of warp 6 and were supposed to start shaking apart if you ran them too long at warp 7 or 8.)

If you figure there are still only a dozen or so starship-class available (which is debatable), there's a lot of space to be covered, so it is at least somewhat plausible that this is the only starship in interception range.

An earlier draft had vger intercepted by a light cruiser that managed to get in its way, and it basically was replaced by that gorgeous Epsilon 9 station in the movie.
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Old May 13 2013, 08:54 PM   #30
Phily B
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Re: Earth will fall [SPOILERS]

Yeah, I'm sure Admiral Marcus and S31 can't disable the defenses or have the Vengeance recognised as such.....
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