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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old May 9 2013, 05:40 AM   #76
trevanian
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Lance wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
It's a bit sad that they couldn't squeeze that other 100,000 dollars for a new explosion out of the production. That all went into the redesigned uniforms they never used.
"Generations" is a funny fish. It doesn't really look like one of the cheap Trek movies, certainly it had a modest budget but it wasn't exactly a tightening of the belt. But it did face some major budgetary problems, because mistakes were made along the way in where exactly they spent all that money. Bafflingly, most of it seemed to be elementary mistakes. Things like (as you say) spending all that money on stitching together uniforms that were scraped after filming began, or having to go back and reshoot the ending because the original version stank, or shooting elaborate stunt sequences (orbital skydiving) which didn't even make it into the picture... these are mistakes that somebody with a bit more experience in movie production might not have made. They could have nipped it in the bud during script conferences, but for some reason a lot of these problems ended up being fixed during production, while the cameras were actually rolling. Maybe it was because they didn't get a whole lot of lead-in time from finishing up the TNG series? Who knows.

I always got the feeling that Berman, Moore, Braga and co had the training wheels on during "Generations". They were really feeling their way through the process of making a feature movie, and that they took a lot of lessons they learnt from the experience of making it into the next one. Hence why "First Contact" hit all the right beats straight outta the gate...
While I'm no fan of FC at all, I agree with you about how screwed-up GEN was on the production side. To me, blowing 20% of your original shooting schedule on the nautical E was just plain insanity.

I think the director and cinematographer worked wonders on the film visually, but the compromises forced on the production by the line producer (the guy who supposedly knew how to make movies on schedule, and he should have known everything after having worked on THE PRISONER and for Stanley Kubrick) didn't do the movie any favors creatively.

I think Carson lost a lot of ground career-wise for this one and it is a shame, he was one of the only directors in ModernTrek who really brought something (the season 5 opener had some really creative framing that worked with depth on the 4:3 image the way a widescreen shooter would work with the bigger aspect ratio to maximize image interest); he should have a career closer to Rob Bowman's, at the very least.
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Old May 10 2013, 03:56 AM   #77
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Dream wrote: View Post
Gene Roddenberry went to the trouble of making the Klingon Empire an ally of the Federation in the TNG era just to get away from that...
Was it Gene? It's been stated many times that Bob Justman was the one who basically had to push hard to convince Gene to have a Klingon (Worf) on the bridge in TNG. Where is it that Gene went out of his way to make the Klingon's an ally?
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Old May 11 2013, 12:50 AM   #78
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Jonesy wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Gene Roddenberry went to the trouble of making the Klingon Empire an ally of the Federation in the TNG era just to get away from that...
Was it Gene? It's been stated many times that Bob Justman was the one who basically had to push hard to convince Gene to have a Klingon (Worf) on the bridge in TNG. Where is it that Gene went out of his way to make the Klingon's an ally?
That's right. Roddenberry wanted TNG to have nothing whatsoever to do with any original Trek alien -- no Klingons, no Vulcans, no nada. And no references to the original. If Roddenberry had had his way, audiences would never have been sure if TNG had any more to do with the original Trek than the Friday the 13th series had to do with the movies.
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Old May 11 2013, 05:24 AM   #79
trevanian
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Jonesy wrote: View Post
Dream wrote: View Post
Gene Roddenberry went to the trouble of making the Klingon Empire an ally of the Federation in the TNG era just to get away from that...
Was it Gene? It's been stated many times that Bob Justman was the one who basically had to push hard to convince Gene to have a Klingon (Worf) on the bridge in TNG. Where is it that Gene went out of his way to make the Klingon's an ally?
That's right. Roddenberry wanted TNG to have nothing whatsoever to do with any original Trek alien -- no Klingons, no Vulcans, no nada. And no references to the original. If Roddenberry had had his way, audiences would never have been sure if TNG had any more to do with the original Trek than the Friday the 13th series had to do with the movies.
Friday13th SERIES! Geez, outside of Robey in a white t-shirt, did that show have ANYTHING going on upstairs?
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Old May 12 2013, 08:14 AM   #80
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

No. Reused shots don't typically bother me.
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Old May 12 2013, 08:22 AM   #81
Dream
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
It's a bit sad that they couldn't squeeze that other 100,000 dollars for a new explosion out of the production.
Reminds me of why I hate Paramount so much. Freaking cheapskates!

You would think they would at least be a little generous with the budget after killing the TNG series on television while is was still quite popular.

Last edited by Dream; May 12 2013 at 11:52 AM.
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Old May 12 2013, 09:25 AM   #82
Maurice
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

As has been reported before, they "killed" TNG for business reasons. The show was getting increasingly expensive to produce and adding more episodes to a series that had run 7 years wasn't going to add significantly to its value especially given those rising costs.
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Old May 12 2013, 12:04 PM   #83
Dream
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Jonesy wrote: View Post
Was it Gene? It's been stated many times that Bob Justman was the one who basically had to push hard to convince Gene to have a Klingon (Worf) on the bridge in TNG. Where is it that Gene went out of his way to make the Klingon's an ally?
I never said Gene had anything to do with Worf.

Only said as showrunner he would've been involved with making the Klingon Empire allies to the Federation, which was established in "Heart of Glory".
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Old May 12 2013, 12:13 PM   #84
Lance
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

That's a good point actually. Was the Klingon/Federation alliance ever established as being pre-Worf (ie, was it thought up during the early pitch meetings), which subsequently urged Justman towards suggesting a regular Klingon cast member?
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Old May 12 2013, 12:54 PM   #85
Dream
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Maurice wrote: View Post
As has been reported before, they "killed" TNG for business reasons. The show was getting increasingly expensive to produce and adding more episodes to a series that had run 7 years wasn't going to add significantly to its value especially given those rising costs.
Paramount not only killed TNG, they also damaged the last season of the show. They moved all the best writers over to DS9. They had Moore and Braga distracted with the Generations script instead of having them focusing on TNG S7 like they should have. S7 suffers so much because they rushed Generations. That garbage movie wasn't even worth it.

Very glad CBS now controls Trek on television.
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Old May 12 2013, 03:35 PM   #86
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

How come no one has bitched about the two shots* reused from the TV series?



* Fly by just before the bit in stellar cartography and the neck shot of the Enterprise duing the saucer separation.
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Old May 12 2013, 03:58 PM   #87
trevanian
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

captain crow wrote: View Post
How come no one has bitched about the two shots* reused from the TV series?



* Fly by just before the bit in stellar cartography and the neck shot of the Enterprise duing the saucer separation.
Topic was probably used up more than most other played-out topics, in dozens of old threads in the past 12 years or so.

An awful lot of work went into salvaging that slow flyaway for GEN (one of the only optical as opposed to digital comps in the show), and even so it looked so 'off' from the rest as seen in-cinema that it was disconcerting. Hard to believe then & now that mo-con stage miniature work would be so expensive as to make spending ANY dollars trying to salvage that worthwhile.
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Old May 12 2013, 04:43 PM   #88
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

captain crow wrote: View Post
How come no one has bitched about the two shots* reused from the TV series?



* Fly by just before the bit in stellar cartography and the neck shot of the Enterprise duing the saucer separation.
Probably because in general that sort of reuse isn't uncommon, and neither one constituted a "climax" shot.
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Old May 12 2013, 09:41 PM   #89
R. Star
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

Effect shots like that are the frosting on the cake. All the best frosting in the world is still gonna be bleh if there's no substance underneath it. Effects are there to enhance a plot, not define it. Generations was doomed long before that bird of prey blew up.
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Old May 13 2013, 12:29 AM   #90
Phily B
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Re: The recycled footage of BOP exploding in Generations

trevanian wrote: View Post
Lance wrote: View Post
JarodRussell wrote: View Post
It's a bit sad that they couldn't squeeze that other 100,000 dollars for a new explosion out of the production. That all went into the redesigned uniforms they never used.
"Generations" is a funny fish. It doesn't really look like one of the cheap Trek movies, certainly it had a modest budget but it wasn't exactly a tightening of the belt. But it did face some major budgetary problems, because mistakes were made along the way in where exactly they spent all that money. Bafflingly, most of it seemed to be elementary mistakes. Things like (as you say) spending all that money on stitching together uniforms that were scraped after filming began, or having to go back and reshoot the ending because the original version stank, or shooting elaborate stunt sequences (orbital skydiving) which didn't even make it into the picture... these are mistakes that somebody with a bit more experience in movie production might not have made. They could have nipped it in the bud during script conferences, but for some reason a lot of these problems ended up being fixed during production, while the cameras were actually rolling. Maybe it was because they didn't get a whole lot of lead-in time from finishing up the TNG series? Who knows.

I always got the feeling that Berman, Moore, Braga and co had the training wheels on during "Generations". They were really feeling their way through the process of making a feature movie, and that they took a lot of lessons they learnt from the experience of making it into the next one. Hence why "First Contact" hit all the right beats straight outta the gate...
While I'm no fan of FC at all, I agree with you about how screwed-up GEN was on the production side. To me, blowing 20% of your original shooting schedule on the nautical E was just plain insanity.

I think the director and cinematographer worked wonders on the film visually, but the compromises forced on the production by the line producer (the guy who supposedly knew how to make movies on schedule, and he should have known everything after having worked on THE PRISONER and for Stanley Kubrick) didn't do the movie any favors creatively.

I think Carson lost a lot of ground career-wise for this one and it is a shame, he was one of the only directors in ModernTrek who really brought something (the season 5 opener had some really creative framing that worked with depth on the 4:3 image the way a widescreen shooter would work with the bigger aspect ratio to maximize image interest); he should have a career closer to Rob Bowman's, at the very least.
I think a lot of mistakes were made, in particular it feels like they handed a movie franchise over to a bunch of TV guys. FC came out really well, but Insurrection and then Nemesis suffered.
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