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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.23%
A 161 21.50%
A- 101 13.48%
B+ 83 11.08%
B 59 7.88%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.34%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.34%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 37 4.94%
Voters: 749. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11 2013, 08:12 PM   #1591
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Phily B wrote: View Post
I couldn't care less about stuff like that really, would people really be happier if they added a minute or two of extra padding between them just to placate peoples need for warp distances? Like Kirk goes to bed and is woke up to be told the Vengenace has caught up to them? Really?!

Btw I don't remember if the Vengeance was ever called by name, Kirk said it was "an unmarked Federation vessel". Also were some lines cut? I don't remember any lines about Starfleet/Federation being about vendettas.
When Scotty is in his shuttle next to the Borg cube space station the bridge crew turn up in their shuttles, the comm chat refers to USS Vengeance iirc.

Kirk having a nice long sleep whilst at warp toward Earth would've been lovely
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Old May 11 2013, 08:13 PM   #1592
SalvorHardin
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

All this First Contact talk reminds me one thing we're still missing.
A blockbuster level, big budget fleet battle. With lots of starships flying around kicking each others butt.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:13 PM   #1593
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Well actually there's the amount of time they're at warp, Khans conversation with Carol and McCoy, the time it takes for her to catch on, leave Sickbay, get to a turbolift, get to the bridge, enter the bridge then tell Kirk.

The Vengeance catches up on her in the Enterprise's own warp wake. Now here's the interesting thing, maybe the Enterprise was at warp under her own power for the first minute or so until the Vengeance entered her wake, the new ships advanced propulsion breakthrough altered the "warp tunnel" they're both traveling in allowing the Enterprise to actually be going much faster than normal, accelerating them both at the higher speed.

/bullshittechnobabblestuff
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Old May 11 2013, 08:13 PM   #1594
marksound
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Maybe every time they go to warp they could have Bones call the bridge and be all, "Are we there yet?"

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Old May 11 2013, 08:14 PM   #1595
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
Supposedly it took nine hours or so for them to get there.
So Picard had his crew sitting at battle stations for nine hours?
After they were all fully battle-ready, with hatches secured and whatever else they need to load up loaded, he'd've taken them down to Yellow probably, then back up again when they got there.

Never had the impression they just got there all that fast, thought it showed that the battle took hours, since the fleet was only mostly decimated by the time they arrived.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:15 PM   #1596
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
All this First Contact talk reminds me one thing we're still missing.
A blockbuster level, big budget fleet battle. With lots of starships flying around kicking each others butt.
Good. Starships aren't X-Wings. Their battles should be like ships at sea.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:16 PM   #1597
Kruezerman
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
Supposedly it took nine hours or so for them to get there.
So Picard had his crew sitting at battle stations for nine hours?
I guess.

I mean, before the Battle of Endor, you had all those pilots sitting in those fighters. Who knows?
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Old May 11 2013, 08:16 PM   #1598
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
All this First Contact talk reminds me one thing we're still missing.
A blockbuster level, big budget fleet battle. With lots of starships flying around kicking each others butt.
The Enterprise doesn't even fire torpedoes or phasers in this movie!
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Old May 11 2013, 08:17 PM   #1599
SalvorHardin
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Shazam! wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
All this First Contact talk reminds me one thing we're still missing.
A blockbuster level, big budget fleet battle. With lots of starships flying around kicking each others butt.
Good. Starships aren't X-Wings. Their battles should be like ships at sea.
Yeah.
And as we all know there have never been any fleet battles, with large numbers of ships participating, at sea. It has always been 1on1.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:17 PM   #1600
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
I agree, I understand what you are saying. I have sat through each of those episodes and movies and it has not bothered me. This time it has. I wish it didn't. Maybe my brain has blew a Trek fuse after all these years? Can't explain it.
Been there, done that.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:19 PM   #1601
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Shazam! wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
All this First Contact talk reminds me one thing we're still missing.
A blockbuster level, big budget fleet battle. With lots of starships flying around kicking each others butt.
Good. Starships aren't X-Wings. Their battles should be like ships at sea.
Yeah.
And as we all know there have never been any fleet battles, with large numbers of ships participating, at sea. It has always been 1on1.
Yep!
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Old May 11 2013, 08:20 PM   #1602
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
Having Kronos 2mins away from Earth at warp is, well, idiotic. Why bother with a neutral zone when both worlds are now next door to each other? Klingon surprise attack by its entire fleet based at Kronos would be straightforward. It should be days away at least. Preferably weeks! It contradicts everything in Star Trek so far.

I expect the next movie will get to the centre of the galaxy in say.... 10 minutes? Why not? Why not nip to the delta quadrant in 20 mins? If it serves the plot and the pacing then so be it.
While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider. Often the distance was arbitrary and it was a case of the writers just being careless about their numbers. Enterprise was the exception and look at the fuss there. The implications are huge.

In the last movie, Scotty was able to home in on the Enterprise's Federation beacon to beam on board. Exactly what was Harrison locking onto on Q'onos? It may be that S31 had set up a beach-head receiving pad in a deserted area to avoid the signal being detected but if not the distance (20+ light years?) makes no story sense.

But why does transwarp beaming even matter if you can travel there physically with 500 times the man power in 5 minutes? Why travel there at all if you can just beam weapons to your location like US Drones? Why have a war at all, when you can just beam your 72 warheads straight to the Klingons' key military targets.

And Scotty was proud that he beamed 3 targets from 2 locations, but Harrison beamed 72 targets in one go using an automated transporter!

Plot convenience is a nice excuse but if you have to use it over and over and over and over and over, it's a sign of a very poorly considered plot.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:23 PM   #1603
Shazam!
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider
I like how whenever someone highlights a flaw in 'nu' Trek the go to defense is that old Star Trek did it worse. That's like saying it's okay for someone to mug an old lady because their dad did it as well.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:23 PM   #1604
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
Never had the impression they just got there all that fast, thought it showed that the battle took hours, since the fleet was only mostly decimated by the time they arrived.
It didn't seem to take the Borg very long to kick the Fleet's ass in The Best of Both Worlds. And we have absolutely no proof that it took them any longer in First Contact.

It seems to me that those that like a Trek movie will go out of their way to defend a 'goof'. Those that dislike a film will condemn it based on the same exact thing.

Hats off to Flake for at least admitting there is no rhyme or reason why it didn't bother him in one film but does in another.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:24 PM   #1605
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Pauln6 wrote: View Post
Flake wrote: View Post
Having Kronos 2mins away from Earth at warp is, well, idiotic. Why bother with a neutral zone when both worlds are now next door to each other? Klingon surprise attack by its entire fleet based at Kronos would be straightforward. It should be days away at least. Preferably weeks! It contradicts everything in Star Trek so far.

I expect the next movie will get to the centre of the galaxy in say.... 10 minutes? Why not? Why not nip to the delta quadrant in 20 mins? If it serves the plot and the pacing then so be it.
While I agree that TOS cocked up speed and distance on more than one occasion, particularly since shuttles seemed to have no warp capability, the movie has opened the can of worms even wider. Often the distance was arbitrary and it was a case of the writers just being careless about their numbers. Enterprise was the exception and look at the fuss there. The implications are huge.

In the last movie, Scotty was able to home in on the Enterprise's Federation beacon to beam on board. Exactly what was Harrison locking onto on Q'onos? It may be that S31 had set up a beach-head receiving pad in a deserted area to avoid the signal being detected but if not the distance (20+ light years?) makes no story sense.

But why does transwarp beaming even matter if you can travel there physically with 500 times the man power in 5 minutes? Why travel there at all if you can just beam weapons to your location like US Drones? Why have a war at all, when you can just beam your 72 warheads straight to the Klingons' key military targets.

And Scotty was proud that he beamed 3 targets from 2 locations, but Harrison beamed 72 targets in one go using an automated transporter!

Plot convenience is a nice excuse but if you have to use it over and over and over and over and over, it's a sign of a very poorly considered plot.
Yes. These writers have all these gizmos at their disposal and don't have a clue of how they should use them or the implications of altering them beyond all recognition to serve the plot.
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