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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.20%
A 161 21.47%
A- 101 13.47%
B+ 83 11.07%
B 59 7.87%
B- 27 3.60%
C+ 40 5.33%
C 38 5.07%
C- 25 3.33%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.73%
D- 10 1.33%
F 38 5.07%
Voters: 750. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11 2013, 07:42 PM   #1576
Flake
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Location: Manchester, UK
Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

JD wrote: View Post
I'm in the US so I haven't seen the movie yet, and can't comment on it's specifics, but I think travel time has easily been one of the least consistent aspects of the entire franchise. So any travel time issues in this movie don't really worry me at all.
Yes, I understand where you are coming from and I agree. The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes... does this concur with the rest of the franchise movies/eps thus far? I think not. Its unprecedented. Except for Star Trek V which is universally derided and dismissed. (Centre of the galaxy in 6 hours)
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Old May 11 2013, 07:45 PM   #1577
SalvorHardin
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes...

I'm curious, is the duration of travel stated in the movie?
Or is it like the 2009 travel to Vulcan, where people were saying it took 3 minutes, but there were cuts in the movie where McCoy had time to change uniforms etc etc
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Old May 11 2013, 07:46 PM   #1578
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
The galaxy is a small place now. Smaller than ever before.
Does it make the galaxy smaller? Sure. But it doesn't bother me. With films like these, so much depends on the crew running on adrenaline, action scene to action scene. So even though we don't see it from an audience perspective, those six travel days would be just as unrealistic for the characters to remain amped up and ready for action.

It's just a trade off.
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Old May 11 2013, 07:54 PM   #1579
F. King Daniel
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I'm in the US so I haven't seen the movie yet, and can't comment on it's specifics, but I think travel time has easily been one of the least consistent aspects of the entire franchise. So any travel time issues in this movie don't really worry me at all.
Yes, I understand where you are coming from and I agree. The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes... does this concur with the rest of the franchise movies/eps thus far? I think not. Its unprecedented. Except for Star Trek V which is universally derided and dismissed. (Centre of the galaxy in 6 hours)
In TOS' second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" the Enterprise was at the rim of the galaxy. They visited the centre of the galaxy in "Magicks of Megas Tu" and STV. In "That Which Survives" the old Enterprise covers 1000 light-years in 12 hours at warp 8.4 - they'd have made Voyager's journey in a month! In "Conspiracy" the Enterprise-D warps 900 light years in a flash. In Star Trek: First Contact, the Enterprise-E jumps from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in the space of a scene break after listing to the Borg battle. Compare that with "Balance of Terror" and "The Neutral Zone", where the RNZ was so far out that messages took days to reach Starfleet and back.

It's wildly inconsistent - but IMO since it's happened so often before, it's a valid for Into Darkness to use the ultra-fast speeds too. No transwarp, just speed-of-plot.
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Old May 11 2013, 07:55 PM   #1580
Aike
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

RAMA wrote: View Post
Still following international reaction on twitter and elsewhere...the bad reactions are usually dire, usually coincide with preconceived notions of Khan. I'd say these bad reviews are running at 5% or less. Im still seeing 25-30% calling it the best Star Trek movie ever and a larger percentage calling it better than ST09, usually because of characterization and the more complex plot, as well as superior villain.. Of course RT is still at 90% fresh after 60 reviews. http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star...into_darkness/

As for myself, I'm still not a fan of the Khan idea, however, I've softened a lot since the rumors started..deciding to consider it like a Bond Blofeld, or Batman's Joker type antagonist analogy. Also, the appearance of Khan is mitigated for me by who's playing the role, I've been a Cumberbatch fan for a long time, and touting the Sherlock series well before it came to the USA (don't ask). Also simply thinking of it as an alternate history that can be told. When the Orci comics came out, the first issue was almost a duplication of the TOS episode, then it started to vary to a greater degree. People are going to complain no matter what...if it's too close, its not original, of it's too far afield, then it's not Star Trek. I'm going into the movie with an open mind.

RAMA
My prediction is that US trekkers in general will love this movie. I think the reason we are seeing some lower grades this time around is because it has opened outside the US first.
Here´s why.

1) The fact is that, maybe except the UK, and it´s a big maybe, TOS was never as popular as TNG or even Voyager in many European countries or Australia and New Zealand. For instance, Star Trek (2009) sold less tickets than First Contact and Insurrection in Germany. On IMDB Star Trek (2009), has a much higher average among American voters than among non-American ones. Given that Into Darkness has 8.4 now and it is mainly international votes coming in, it will go through the roof next weekend when it opens in the US.

2) Lots of folks that liked and loved the last one, still enjoy Into Darkness even if they grade it lower. I think this has to do with that they are mainly TNG era fans. They were just happy to see anykind of new Star Trek in 2009. But they are not as attached to Kirk, Spock and the rest of the crew as Americans are.

3) People believed it would be Star Trek: The Empire Strikes Back or Star Trek: The Dark Knight mixed with some kind of disaster movie because of the marketing and tag lines like "Earth will fall". It´s not. It´s a lot lighter. They are just selling it like that to bring in average joe sixpack that has no interest in space battles. If you´re a trekker, forget about the marketing. Instead, read what JJ, Burke and the script writers are saying.


4) Some have had too high expectations. So it´s good to be a little pessimistic. Star Trek (2009) was excellent. Still, this is a worthy sequel and most of you guys will enjoy it as soon as it begins. If you liked the nine minute preview, you will enjoy the rest of the movie. The fun doesn´t end until two hours later.

I just wish I would be able to see it in the US, because it is a crowd pleaser.
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Old May 11 2013, 07:55 PM   #1581
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Flake wrote: View Post
The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes...

I'm curious, is the duration of travel stated in the movie?
Or is it like the 2009 travel to Vulcan, where people were saying it took 3 minutes, but there were cuts in the movie where McCoy had time to change uniforms etc etc
No ambiguity about the travel time. Kirk orders warp, we see the ship go to warp then Carol Marcus informs Kirk that the Vengeance will still be able to catch up and overtake them.. this takes 30 seconds. Then another 30 seconds whilst the Vengeance catches them and another 30 seconds of them firing. And they are at Earth.

Fortunately for the Enterprise, the final shot of the Vengeance that snatches them out of warp speed occurs when they are only 200,000 km from their destination. So it didn't matter that they caught up because probably 0.000001second after the critical shot the computer would've come out of warp speed anyway. Its just such shit writing it takes me right out of the movie for a moment whilst I shake my head . Didn't have this issue with ST09.
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Old May 11 2013, 07:59 PM   #1582
ClayHefner
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I think the whole Warp speed thing is not so terrible.
It's more like Star Wars now, which isn't a bad thing. On Star Wars they also could jump around the galaxy rather quickly. And the SW galaxy still felt big and mysterious.
One problem is certainly that a five year mission isn't really a journey into the unexpected anymore when they can just warp (or beam) back to Earth every evening to rearm and have a few drinks.

Transwarp beaming is different though. It's hard to imagine a series without nerfing this.
If you think about it, though, the new "SW'ish Warp" reduces the "universe-shattering" effect of transwarp beaming. Because if you can have an armed ship anywhere in minutes you may prefer that over beaming people instead (and long-range beaming might have other complications and dangers they could always introduce later).
Loved the movie, disliked 09, STID's my fav ST movie now. Brainless and brutally fast-paced at times, but the heck. Cumberbatch and new Klings are badass.
9/10
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Old May 11 2013, 07:59 PM   #1583
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
Flake wrote: View Post
The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes...

I'm curious, is the duration of travel stated in the movie?
Or is it like the 2009 travel to Vulcan, where people were saying it took 3 minutes, but there were cuts in the movie where McCoy had time to change uniforms etc etc
No ambiguity about the travel time. Kirk orders warp, we see the ship go to warp then Carol Marcus informs Kirk that the Vengeance will still be able to catch up and overtake them.. this takes 30 seconds. Then another 30 seconds whilst the Vengeance catches them and another 30 seconds of them firing. And they are at Earth.

Fortunately for the Enterprise, the final shot of the Vengeance that snatches them out of warp speed occurs when they are only 200,000 km from their destination. So it didn't matter that they caught up because probably 0.000001second after the critical shot the computer would've come out of warp speed anyway. Its just such shit writing it takes me right out of the movie for a moment whilst I shake my head . Didn't have this issue with ST09.
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
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Old May 11 2013, 08:00 PM   #1584
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Flake wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I'm in the US so I haven't seen the movie yet, and can't comment on it's specifics, but I think travel time has easily been one of the least consistent aspects of the entire franchise. So any travel time issues in this movie don't really worry me at all.
Yes, I understand where you are coming from and I agree. The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes... does this concur with the rest of the franchise movies/eps thus far? I think not. Its unprecedented. Except for Star Trek V which is universally derided and dismissed. (Centre of the galaxy in 6 hours)
In TOS' second pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" the Enterprise was at the rim of the galaxy. They visited the centre of the galaxy in "Magicks of Megas Tu" and STV. In "That Which Survives" the old Enterprise covers 1000 light-years in 12 hours at warp 8.4 - they'd have made Voyager's journey in a month! In "Conspiracy" the Enterprise-D warps 900 light years in a flash. In Star Trek: First Contact, the Enterprise-E jumps from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in the space of a scene break after listing to the Borg battle. Compare that with "Balance of Terror" and "The Neutral Zone", where the RNZ was so far out that messages took days to reach Starfleet and back.

It's wildly inconsistent - but IMO since it's happened so often before, it's a valid for Into Darkness to use the ultra-fast speeds too. No transwarp, just speed-of-plot.
I agree, I understand what you are saying. I have sat through each of those episodes and movies and it has not bothered me. This time it has. I wish it didn't. Maybe my brain has blew a Trek fuse after all these years? Can't explain it.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:01 PM   #1585
Kruezerman
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
Supposedly it took nine hours or so for them to get there.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:03 PM   #1586
Aike
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
I'm in the US so I haven't seen the movie yet, and can't comment on it's specifics, but I think travel time has easily been one of the least consistent aspects of the entire franchise. So any travel time issues in this movie don't really worry me at all.
Yes, I understand where you are coming from and I agree. The new travel time from Earth to Klingon homeworld is about 2 minutes... does this concur with the rest of the franchise movies/eps thus far? I think not. Its unprecedented. Except for Star Trek V which is universally derided and dismissed. (Centre of the galaxy in 6 hours)
Yeah, this trip was quite fast. But I believe it is mainly because they didn´t have any scenes in the crew quarters this time either. In the past, they have travelled great distances in a very short time too, but they always have had one or two scenes in the crew quarters (or ready room etc) that made you believe it takes longer time.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:05 PM   #1587
Flake
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
Supposedly it took nine hours or so for them to get there.
There was some ambiguity about the travel time in FC. Maybe this kept my negative brain hemisphere quiet, because its never bothered me.

The only trouble with the 9hours explanation is the reaction of the crew just after Picard orders Red Alert and Engage... its as if they are going to be fighting the Borg in a minute or so
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Old May 11 2013, 08:08 PM   #1588
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I couldn't care less about stuff like that really, would people really be happier if they added a minute or two of extra padding between them just to placate peoples need for warp distances? Like Kirk goes to bed and is woke up to be told the Vengenace has caught up to them? Really?!

Btw I don't remember if the Vengeance was ever called by name, Kirk said it was "an unmarked Federation vessel". Also were some lines cut? I don't remember any lines about Starfleet/Federation being about vendettas.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:09 PM   #1589
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
Kruezerman wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
Supposedly it took nine hours or so for them to get there.
There was some ambiguity about the travel time in FC. Maybe this kept my negative brain hemisphere quiet, because its never bothered me.

The only trouble with the 9hours explanation is the reaction of the crew just after Picard orders Red Alert and Engage... its as if they are going to be fighting the Borg in a minute or so
Exactly, I didn't have the problem with it in First Contact when they went to red alert and next shot was them at Earth.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:10 PM   #1590
BillJ
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Did it take you out of First Contact when the Enterprise went from the Romulan Neutral Zone to Earth in a blink of an eye?
Supposedly it took nine hours or so for them to get there.
So Picard had his crew sitting at battle stations for nine hours?
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