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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 11 2013, 02:30 PM   #31
Nerys Myk
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

First I've heard of "Kam" being a suffix meaning daughter.
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Old May 11 2013, 04:20 PM   #32
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

If Saavik were to have been Spock's (adopted) daughter, then her "life saving" actions in the pon farr scene take on a whole new meaning.

And now we're back to icky.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
First I've heard of "Kam" being a suffix meaning daughter.
"Am" could be something like a Chinese father would use in a semi private conversation with his daughter, Saavik-xiaonu (Saavik my daughter).

I've always taken it to be a honorific of some kind.


Last edited by T'Girl; May 11 2013 at 04:58 PM.
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Old May 11 2013, 10:31 PM   #33
Greg Cox
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
First I've heard of "Kam" being a suffix meaning daughter.
I'm not even familiar with that suffix at all. Was it ever used on TOS? Or prior to The Wrath of Khan?
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Old May 12 2013, 07:32 AM   #34
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Sorry guys to perhaps misleading you, (newbie here) perhaps I don't know how to show you here that its just my own interpretation of TWOK and fan-fiction novels I've read that makes me think that KAM is a parent to child sort of thing.
The Vulcan Language Dictionary (also non-canon) say the KAM suffix is a sign of affection usually mother to child.
I haven't seen it in any semi-canon things like novels.
Its just a thing that stuck in my mind and won't let me see the relationship between Spock and Saavik as sort of father - daughter like even though I'm fairly certain he didn't actually raise her in my imaginary canon anyway
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Old May 13 2013, 06:08 AM   #35
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Timo wrote: View Post

Spock experienced it only once AFAWK - until being reborn, at which time he again only apparently experienced it once despite supposedly maturing through several decades. Vorik experienced it once (VOY "Blood Fever"), perhaps because he had no mate yet. Tuvok experienced it, too, despite previous experience, but perhaps because he had no telepathic connection to the mate he already had. His still remains the only confirmed case of a repeat performance of pon farr...

Timo Saloniemi

Although not confirmed, can we make the assumption Sarek went through pon farr twice?
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Old May 13 2013, 05:58 PM   #36
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
If Saavik were to have been Spock's (adopted) daughter, then her "life saving" actions in the pon farr scene take on a whole new meaning.

And now we're back to icky.
Would it have been better for Spock to die again?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
First I've heard of "Kam" being a suffix meaning daughter.
"Am" could be something like a Chinese father would use in a semi private conversation with his daughter, Saavik-xiaonu (Saavik my daughter).

I've always taken it to be a honorific of some kind.

I took it to be a diminutive or informal way of calling her "my (young) friend."

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
First I've heard of "Kam" being a suffix meaning daughter.
I'm not even familiar with that suffix at all. Was it ever used on TOS? Or prior to The Wrath of Khan?
No, and no.

Agonizer wrote: View Post
Timo wrote: View Post

Spock experienced it only once AFAWK - until being reborn, at which time he again only apparently experienced it once despite supposedly maturing through several decades. Vorik experienced it once (VOY "Blood Fever"), perhaps because he had no mate yet. Tuvok experienced it, too, despite previous experience, but perhaps because he had no telepathic connection to the mate he already had. His still remains the only confirmed case of a repeat performance of pon farr...

Timo Saloniemi
Although not confirmed, can we make the assumption Sarek went through pon farr twice?
Only if we accept the nonsensical idea that Sarek married a princess on a planet that isn't run by a monarchy...
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Old May 13 2013, 06:28 PM   #37
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

First, what could lead you to believe that Vulcan does not have a royal family, or multiple royal families? America isn't a monoarchy and we still have the Hawaiian royal family, which include princesses. Also some of our Native American tribes have royal family lines.

Second, nothing says that Vulcan isn't actually a monoarchy. After the Central Command governmental system was brought down in the 22nd century, what would eventually become the Vulcan government is unclear. We really have no idea what they have in the 23rd and 24th centuries.

Third, Spock himself said that his half-brother was the son of a "Vulcan Princess."


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Old May 13 2013, 07:43 PM   #38
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
First, what could lead you to believe that Vulcan does not have a royal family, or multiple royal families? America isn't a monoarchy and we still have the Hawaiian royal family, which include princesses. Also some of our Native American tribes have royal family lines.

Second, nothing says that Vulcan isn't actually a monoarchy. After the Central Command governmental system was brought down in the 22nd century, what would eventually become the Vulcan government is unclear. We really have no idea what they have in the 23rd and 24th centuries.

Third, Spock himself said that his half-brother was the son of a "Vulcan Princess."
Maybe because Star Trek V - the only movie that TPTB prefer not to acknowledge as truly canon - has the only mention of a monarchy on Vulcan?

There may have been monarchies in pre-Surak times. I'd have to re-read, but I think there may have been such mentions in Diane Duane's excellent novel Spock's World.

But as much as I could wish it, Diane Duane's novels are not canon.
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Old May 13 2013, 07:54 PM   #39
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Maybe because Star Trek V - the only movie that TPTB prefer not to acknowledge as truly canon....
They pretty much acknowledge it in Enterprise. At least Vulcans who explore emotions.
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Old May 13 2013, 08:22 PM   #40
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Enterprise did not exist at the time of Star Trek V. And that show isn't part of my personal canon at all. Its very existence violates, in a pretty noticeable way, many of the things that were established by Roddenberry.
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Old May 14 2013, 01:17 AM   #41
Nerys Myk
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
First, what could lead you to believe that Vulcan does not have a royal family, or multiple royal families? America isn't a monoarchy and we still have the Hawaiian royal family, which include princesses. Also some of our Native American tribes have royal family lines.

Second, nothing says that Vulcan isn't actually a monoarchy. After the Central Command governmental system was brought down in the 22nd century, what would eventually become the Vulcan government is unclear. We really have no idea what they have in the 23rd and 24th centuries.

Third, Spock himself said that his half-brother was the son of a "Vulcan Princess."
Maybe because Star Trek V - the only movie that TPTB prefer not to acknowledge as truly canon - has the only mention of a monarchy on Vulcan?

There may have been monarchies in pre-Surak times. I'd have to re-read, but I think there may have been such mentions in Diane Duane's excellent novel Spock's World.

But as much as I could wish it, Diane Duane's novels are not canon.
I thought only Roddenberry disavowed TFF.
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Old May 14 2013, 01:22 AM   #42
Timewalker
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I thought only Roddenberry disavowed TFF.
Isn't that good enough? If others also disavowed it, so much the better.

If Spock had said "priestess" I wouldn't have complained. We saw previously that there were indeed priestesses, and no mention was made that they were forbidden to marry.
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Old May 14 2013, 01:28 AM   #43
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

TFF has never been "officially" disavowed. Lord knows I've referenced it in my novels and nobody at Paramount or CBS has ever objected.And it's still included in all the licensed encyclopedias, chronologies, reference books,etc.
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Old May 14 2013, 01:47 AM   #44
Timewalker
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Okay, fine... Gene Roddenberry and I must be the only two people on the whole planet who think it was utter crap and should never have been made.
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Old May 14 2013, 01:52 AM   #45
Nerys Myk
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Timewalker wrote: View Post
Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
I thought only Roddenberry disavowed TFF.
Isn't that good enough? If others also disavowed it, so much the better.

If Spock had said "priestess" I wouldn't have complained. We saw previously that there were indeed priestesses, and no mention was made that they were forbidden to marry.
80's Roddenberry? Nope.

Was any Vulcan ever called a Priest or Priestess? ( IIRC, T'Lar is only called a Priestess in the credits) Is a Vulcan with a religious title any less in keeping with with what we know of Vulcans, than one with a royal title? Royalty and religion both seem to conflict with the Vulcan adherence to logic and non-emotion.
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