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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 10 2013, 04:50 PM   #301
aridas sofia
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

BTW, the real kicker on theis "five year mission" stuff was Roddenberry's characterization of it in the TMP novelization. He says Enterprise was the only one to come back intact IIRC. To me, that infers a mission of some specificity and duration assigned to a specific number of ships.
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Old May 10 2013, 04:52 PM   #302
scotpens
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Irishman wrote: View Post
Is the prologue considered "in-universe"? Including the theme song?
Yes, but without Gene Roddenberry's crappy lyrics.
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Old May 10 2013, 04:52 PM   #303
Timo
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Trying to fit the opening credit speech into the universe takes some doing an sich. Who is this clown spraying the words as if he were trying to sell something? Who's his customer supposed to be? At least it retroactively seems he's paraphrasing some famous utterance of Zephram Cochrane there, thus if not quite taking the cheesiness out of the words, then at least shifting the blame...

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Old May 10 2013, 04:54 PM   #304
Timo
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Not to me. If you're going on a five-year mission, you wouldn't just take what you think you'll need for five years. You plan for the unexpected and take as much as you can practically carry with you, and still meet all your other mission/logistical requirements.
Which removes all the evidence value of this "five years' worth of food aboard" anyway. If at any arbitrary point you are stocked for X more years, then X can't be used to infer your mission length.

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Old May 10 2013, 05:13 PM   #305
Mysterion
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Timo wrote: View Post
Not to me. If you're going on a five-year mission, you wouldn't just take what you think you'll need for five years. You plan for the unexpected and take as much as you can practically carry with you, and still meet all your other mission/logistical requirements.
Which removes all the evidence value of this "five years' worth of food aboard" anyway. If at any arbitrary point you are stocked for X more years, then X can't be used to infer your mission length.

Timo Saloniemi
True enough, but it makes sense. To me at least.

Look what happened to the SS Minnow. They left for a three-hour tour, only took supplies for three housrs and ended up eating cocnuts for the rest of their lives.

If I'm the Supply Officer for the Enterprise, I am going to have crammed as much as possible into those cargo holds on day one, and am going to be topping-off whatever I can every time that ship got within range of a Starbase or supply depot. I am not going to be eating cocnuts exclusively at any point in that "five year" mission.
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Old May 10 2013, 05:43 PM   #306
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
As I have said before, the line that specifies Enterprise's gross tonnage as nearly a million versus its stated mass of 180,000 is likely referring to denenerate matter held for conversion to consumibles for crew and ship. 800,000 tons of it. Enough for the mission and more if needed. So yeah. Maybe.

As for ignoring the "five year" part, sure, whatever. It's there. It's stated. You can finesse it with the deft touch of a fan trying to make 800,000 tons fit in a 180,000 ton ship, but Occam and all. Do we assume he says it but that he really didn't have a "five year mission" or that he said it and did have a "five year mission"? To each his own.
Is that "degenerate" matter?
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Old May 10 2013, 06:01 PM   #307
Timo
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

True enough, but it makes sense. To me at least.
I fully agree. Kirk wasn't stranded in the far frontier during the later seasons; he regularly visited civilization, including planet Earth, and would surely have been keeping his supplies fresh.

Which makes it all the more difficult to see any "five-year mission" in the adventures, as Kirk just sort of comes and goes.

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Old May 10 2013, 06:06 PM   #308
Mysterion
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

It's a syndrome of Trek, I'm afraid.

Example: the Galaxy class Ent-D. Suppossed to be this big exploration ship. And we're gonna be out for so long, we're bringing the kids with us. Look how often those guys were hanging around at Earth.

DS9 was suppossed to be out on the edge of the frontier, but getting back and forth from Earth was pretty damned easy, or so it seemed.

Even Voyager, which got tossed to the far side of the galaxy, managed to have contact with Earth.
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Old May 10 2013, 07:21 PM   #309
aridas sofia
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I am having a brain lapse. When did Enterprise return to Earth during the course of TOS? I mean real, 23rd century Earth. Not Guardian of Forever Earth or black star slingshot 1967 Earth but good ol' 2265 Starfleet Earth?

As for taking extra supplies... I climb mountains. If I go on a three day mountain climb I take three days provisions plus two days light rations in case of emergency plus the gear to help find and process consumibles if the emergency goes longer. I think the very idea of "beyond the frontier" and "unknown" demands preparation for catastrophic failure. Roddenberry must have agreed as he said twelve out of thirteen ships experienced such failure or something similar.

Look, within the context of TOS, TAS and TMP it is a five year mission into the unknown that nobody else pulled off. Add in the other series and movies and it might muddy the picture but hey, that is always the case. That is, after all, what this thread really started out being about, right? A fan whose dad fleshed out the TOS universe for her and her friends whose work was universally accepted by fans the world over and formed, literally, a cornerstone of fandom to the point it came to piss off DC Fontana, Matt Jefferies and Roddenberry himself, and continued to be accepted as such until strenuously and deliberately undone by the very studio (and its employees) that had so benefitted from its act of resuccitation. And the coda - resuccitated and reborn as a dumbed down product (the TOS movies) for an expanded, unquestioning fan base that made Gulf and Western stockholders a profit but hardly did much to make that TOS world "real". Real in the way Franz Joseph had done and for which TOS fans had seemed to hunger. But hey, a hungry fan doesn't demand steak when tossed hamburger.

Last edited by aridas sofia; May 10 2013 at 07:45 PM.
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Old May 10 2013, 09:28 PM   #310
blssdwlf
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Timo wrote: View Post
If the ship has five years of food left as of SD 5423, doesn't that sort of suggest a ten-year mission?
That's assuming she never resupplied between the first episode and "Mark of Gideon". Since we know that she takes on supplies and such in the intervening episodes, the most we can assume is that she's carrying either her normal supply or max capacity of foods as of "Mark of Gideon".
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Old May 10 2013, 09:58 PM   #311
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

aridas sofia wrote: View Post
I am having a brain lapse. When did Enterprise return to Earth during the course of TOS? I mean real, 23rd century Earth. Not Guardian of Forever Earth or black star slingshot 1967 Earth but good ol' 2265 Starfleet Earth?

As for taking extra supplies... I climb mountains. If I go on a three day mountain climb I take three days provisions plus two days light rations in case of emergency plus the gear to help find and process consumibles if the emergency goes longer. I think the very idea of "beyond the frontier" and "unknown" demands preparation for catastrophic failure. Roddenberry must have agreed as he said twelve out of thirteen ships experienced such failure or something similar.

Look, within the context of TOS, TAS and TMP it is a five year mission into the unknown that nobody else pulled off. Add in the other series and movies and it might muddy the picture but hey, that is always the case. That is, after all, what this thread really started out being about, right? A fan whose dad fleshed out the TOS universe for her and her friends whose work was universally accepted by fans the world over and formed, literally, a cornerstone of fandom to the point it came to piss off DC Fontana, Matt Jefferies and Roddenberry himself, and continued to be accepted as such until strenuously and deliberately undone by the very studio (and its employees) that had so benefitted from its act of resuccitation. And the coda - resuccitated and reborn as a dumbed down product (the TOS movies) for an expanded, unquestioning fan base that made Gulf and Western stockholders a profit but hardly did much to make that TOS world "real". Real in the way Franz Joseph had done and for which TOS fans had seemed to hunger. But hey, a hungry fan doesn't demand steak when tossed hamburger.
This reminds me of how TNG reinvented the Klingons and Romulans to make them different than what fandom and previous writers had established.
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Old May 10 2013, 10:54 PM   #312
blssdwlf
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

This is an interesting question. Did Kirk follow this "five year mission" that he narrates at the beginning of the episodes?

Space: the final frontier.

I guess it is in TOS.

These are the voyages of the starship Enterprise.

Well we do follow them around each episode.

Its five-year mission:

Kirk indirectly confirms that he was out there for five years dealing with unknowns like V'ger in TMP. Were his previous years on other ships then not as a captain or dealing with unknowns like V'ger?

to explore strange new worlds,

They do this in various episodes on planets that they appear first to discover.

to seek out new life

Yes, they discover new life (and live to tell about it).

and new civilizations,

I would suppose the First Federation, the Metrons, etc count.

to boldly go where no man has gone before.

Kirk did ignore the First Federation's warning beacon and went where they were suppose to stay out of. And past the furthest charted information in "Arena", although it was Angrily Going...

I'd say for the most part they were doing what their narrated mission statement said they would do AND doing the mundane stuff like escorting diplomats, fighting wars, policing space lanes, etc.
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Old May 11 2013, 03:45 AM   #313
Masao
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

I think the true meaning of "5-year mission" is "Please don't cancel our TV show after only 3 seasons!"
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Old May 11 2013, 07:49 PM   #314
Nerys Myk
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

Masao wrote: View Post
I think the true meaning of "5-year mission" is "Please don't cancel our TV show after only 3 seasons!"
If only it had worked.

OTOH, it might have meant two more years of Season Three quality.
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Old May 11 2013, 07:54 PM   #315
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Re: Franz Joseph Blueprints Revisited

^^^
I think you're right. TOS ended at the right time, maybe for the wrong reasons, but at the right time.
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