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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old May 10 2013, 01:30 AM   #226
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Dane_Whitman wrote: View Post
Firefly and Enterprise were also released in HD with upconverted SFX footage. Nevertheless quite an improvement from dvd.
Enterprise's effects footage is not upconverted. It's native HD.
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Old May 10 2013, 01:37 AM   #227
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I was under the impression that most of Enterprise's visual effects were actually rendered at 480p. No?
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Old May 10 2013, 01:38 AM   #228
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^ No. It was all made natively in HD from the get-go.
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Old May 10 2013, 01:50 AM   #229
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

What were DS9 and VOY's visual effects rendered at? Was it 480p?
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Old May 10 2013, 02:06 AM   #230
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ No. It was all made natively in HD from the get-go.
They were rendered at 480p. Which is why they look all jagged in 1080p.
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Old May 10 2013, 02:06 AM   #231
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^ No. ENT's effects were not rendered at 480p. It was native HD. I think it was 720p. You may be thinking of the director's cut of TMP, whose new effects were done at 480p (but can be re-rendered).

As for DS9 and Voyager, those shows did it just like TNG did: the effects were done on film, but transferred to videotape for editing, which automatically knocked the resolution down to 480i.
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Old May 10 2013, 02:09 AM   #232
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ No. ENT's effects were not rendered at 480p. It was native HD. I think it was 720p. You may be thinking of the director's cut of TMP, whose new effects were done at 480p (but can be re-rendered).

As for DS9 and Voyager, those shows did it just like TNG did: the effects were done on film, but transferred to videotape for editing, which automatically knocked the resolution down to 480i.
http://trekcore.com/blog/2013/03/rev...son-1-blu-ray/

From the review:

As I've discussed in previous articles, CG and VFX sequences for the first three seasons of Enterprise were rendered at 720p resolution during the show's production (CORRECTION: It seems most VFX shots were actually produced at 480p resolution, with shots only being rendered at 720p/1080p if the visual effects team thought aliasing issues were too severe). Rather than re-render these shots at full 1080p (which would have proved prohibitively expensive for CBS due to the reduced market for Enterprise) the shots have been up-scaled. The results seem to be very much dependent on the (admittedly variable) quality of the CG that was produced back in 2001-2002 rather than any upscaling algorithms CBS may have used.
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Old May 10 2013, 02:25 AM   #233
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^ Oh. Okay then.

So is the show HD or not?
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Old May 10 2013, 02:28 AM   #234
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
^ Oh. Okay then.

So is the show HD or not?
Live-action is. Anything with special effects or blue-screen can run anywhere from 480p to 1080p.
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Old May 10 2013, 10:07 AM   #235
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

BillJ wrote: View Post
I want TNG on Blu-ray because I want TNG on Blu-ray, not because buying it will lead to hypothetical releases down the road. Plus, I simply don't believe other series HD makeovers rely solely on how well TNG sells. I think actual cost, likely revenue sources beyond the Blu-ray (syndication, streaming) and even the sales performance of Enterprise (which I haven't bought and have no intention of buying) will factor as much into any decisions regarding the other two series.
BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm not trying to be a dick and I like Mike Okuda, but I'm pretty sure the decision to greenlight DS9-R is made far above his pay-grade. I buy TNG-R because I like TNG, not because it implies some promise to upgrade the other series and, honestly, I think it's wrong to present it that way.
Amen brother (or is it "Yeah brother, yeah...")...

For the consumer, the formula has to be simple: On a product-by-product basis, in your eyes if it's good (examples to me are S1 & S3), support it with your dollars. If it's crap (to me, S2), you're sending the wrong message if you support it in spite of its entirely avoidable flaws. Forget about syndication, etc. as part of this analysis -- just the BDs. For myself, I'm buying TNG-R (sans S2) as long as the quality's good, but not to get DS9-R. If DS9-R's good, I'll buy that. I most likely will not buy VOY-R or ENT-not-R. These are simply my choices.

If you're a fan of X-Files (and I'm personally not; I just never took to it) you need to be out there now and make it clear to Fox that you will not buy an upscaled release. When the clearly subpar TNG-R S2 screencaps were released, it was too late to fix the initial release, but the message to CBS should be the same at all points in the process: I will not support any substandard BD release with my dollars. Place the burden of quality control on them. To CBS's credit, they seem to have learned from the S2 debacle by removing HTV and modifying their production processes. Of course in practice (particularly in Trekdom) consumers for whatever reason buy whatever the studios release regardless of the quality, only too happy to double-dip years (or sometimes months) down the road. Of course the studios know and bank on this.

If I'm CBS, I'm thinking seriously about releasing VOY-R (arguably the less popular series) before DS9-R so I can coax nondiscriminating consumers into buying a show they don't even like on the promise that it will lead to a DS9-R release.

As consumers we have to distinguish between those with a financial interest in current and future Trek-R projects (e.g. the Okudas) and those providing a thoughtful, objective analysis of the situation (e.g. Maxwell Everett). I'm sure the Okudas are swell people too, but by definition they're shills for these projects, providing little if any technical guidance (and if they are they have some serious 'splaining to do for S2) and basically using their past association with the shows to rubber stamp and hype these releases and cash a check. I personally tune it out and let the products speak for themselves. I do enjoy their commentaries (both audio and text) as they have a wealth of Trek knowledge to impart; I'm significantly less impressed with the modified "Okudagrams" that replace original TNG staff names with TNG-R people though.

The product planners at CBS are going to analyze each of these projects on their own merits in terms of whether potential revenues justify the costs of remastering vs. upscaling, new VAM vs. ported VAM. They already did just that with ENT, determining that the existing HD broadcast masters were good enough for a series with arguably limited sales potential (compared with TNG-R anyway) but new VAM might goose sales a bit -- a worthy strategy. Buying TNG-R on BD tells CBS nothing about how, say, VOY-R will sell on BD (if BD is even still relevant by that time). I agree with BillJ that ENT is probably a closer model to follow for a VOY-R release. I love DS9, but the reality is that TNG was a much more popular, iconic series and that has probably played the largest role in its stellar HD treatment. If we want a truly remastered DS9-R, CBS has to know now (through analysis and consumer feedback) that the cost in lost sales resulting from an upscaled release will be greater than the cost to do a proper remaster, perhaps with new, high-quality VAM.
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Old May 10 2013, 01:25 PM   #236
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^^ Leading on from what you are saying Joe, I have to say I would not spend a penny on a partially upconverted blu ray release for either DS9 or Voyager.

I took my chances with Enterprise, even though I'm not a great fan of the show. However, the constant switching between resolutions is very distracting to the degree that it's unwatchable for me. They need to do a proper remastering or I will stick to the DVDs as they are at least consistant.
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Old May 10 2013, 02:01 PM   #237
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

What did they do with Trials and Tribble-ations on the TOS BD set? Was it a straight upscale job, because that looked awful IMO.....

Even though Firefly on BD included upscaled VFX, I would imagine that DS9 probably had a greater usage of VFX per episode.

If that's the way they ultimately went with DS9 then I'd probably wait and see what the results were before committing to buy. If they go down the route of TNG then I'm all over it on day one.
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Old May 10 2013, 03:38 PM   #238
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Angel4576 wrote: View Post
What did they do with Trials and Tribble-ations on the TOS BD set? Was it a straight upscale job, because that looked awful IMO.....

Even though Firefly on BD included upscaled VFX, I would imagine that DS9 probably had a greater usage of VFX per episode.

If that's the way they ultimately went with DS9 then I'd probably wait and see what the results were before committing to buy. If they go down the route of TNG then I'm all over it on day one.
Yeah I believe Trials and Tribble-ations was just upscaled. There are 2 things in DS9's favour over Firefly and Enterprise, it wasn't cancelled and CGI wasn't used heavily until the last couple of seasons.
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Old May 10 2013, 04:51 PM   #239
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

GameOn wrote: View Post
Yeah I believe Trials and Tribble-ations was just upscaled. There are 2 things in DS9's favour over Firefly and Enterprise, it wasn't cancelled and CGI wasn't used heavily until the last couple of seasons.
To be honest, when I watched Firefly on BD I was surprised at how little VFX they actually used. It wasn't anywhere near as much as I remembered/expected.
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Old May 11 2013, 01:42 PM   #240
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Re: Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I just saw on Trekcore's youtube trailer for Season 4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfR5T2mlCts), that a couple weeks ago, trekcore made a comment on their video saying that Season 4 is being done by Modern Videofilm, but Season 6 is being done by CBS-D? I hadn't heard anything about this. So CBS are doing Seasons 5, 6 and 7?

I'll be really happy if so, since CBS are doing such a great job (and Season 6 is my favourite season :P), even if it means the gap between seasons might be a bit longer.
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