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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 143 19.32%
A 160 21.62%
A- 99 13.38%
B+ 82 11.08%
B 58 7.84%
B- 27 3.65%
C+ 40 5.41%
C 38 5.14%
C- 24 3.24%
D+ 11 1.49%
D 13 1.76%
D- 10 1.35%
F 35 4.73%
Voters: 740. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 9 2013, 04:08 PM   #1276
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

mredom wrote: View Post
Oso Blanco wrote: View Post
tobiasrichter wrote: View Post
One thing I still don´t understand - when they seem now to be able to beam peope right across the galaxy (I guess Earth-Kronos is pretty far away), why do they need starships at all? Will the future of Star Trek be like Stargate, hopping from one planet to the next?
I had really hoped that this transwarp beaming nonsense from the first movie would never come up again, but there you go ... beaming from Starfleet HQ directly to Kronos ... has there ever been anything more facepalmworthy in Star Trek?

I know I come across as if I didn't like the movie. Well, I did like it ... but those little things are kind of ruining it for me. The Klingon "D4" ship was another one.
In the "prime" universe, starfleet did not yet have the technology to beam people over great distances, but it was canonically shown in "Assignment: Earth" when Gary Seven is beamed from an extreme distance. It wasn't that it couldn't be done, it just couldn't be done by Starfleet, a problem which Montgomery Scott evidently later found a solution to.

Just sayin'
They say in the movie that "his" formula was taken, wiped clean and he was ordered never to use it again probably cause of temporal prime directive. Presumably, Section 31 got their hands on it - we saw in DS9 they could do it - which is why Khan does what he does.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:10 PM   #1277
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Chu'lak wrote: View Post
Kirk's KHAAAAN in TWOK made no sense. he knew he was just buying time for Spock to repair the enterprise and beam them out in 2 hours. Was that just theatrics to fool khan into thinking he didnt have that ace up his sleave?
I think that may be it, yeah. That explanation also makes Shatner look a little better - it's Kirk's over-the-top acting, not the Shat's.

The other thing to consider, though, is that Kirk is really furious at Khan for reasons other than being "marooned" - he's just watched one Starfleet officer commit suicide and he's got a guy who served under him for who knows how many years lying on the floor in a coma, and Khan's responsible for both.
Plus all the other recent casualties in Khan's wake: the scientist Terrell burned away instead of David (was that one of the reasons Terrell offed himself?), the scientists on the station tortured to death, not to mention Peter Preston and the other trainees and crew. And, the millions who might die if Khan escapes and deploys Genesis....
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Old May 9 2013, 04:15 PM   #1278
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Disappointing. Is it really that hard to come up with new characters? Just taking a bunch of characters from the best star trek film and rehashing the plot isn't good enough. Lazy at best.

And I agree, Khan is from 1996, and is still frozen, so has no reason to be a vengeful mass murderer. Abrams has not added anything new to star trek, only taken various bits from previous films/episodes and rehashed the story. Why not a new race from another part of the galaxy, or even another galaxy? :/


I did however like seeing the NX-01 model on the desk.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:18 PM   #1279
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

NCC-1701-B wrote: View Post
Disappointing. Is it really that hard to come up with new characters? Just taking a bunch of characters from the best star trek film and rehashing the plot isn't good enough. Lazy at best.

And I agree, Khan is from 1996, and is still frozen, so has no reason to be a vengeful mass murderer. Abrams has not added anything new to star trek, only taken various bits from previous films/episodes and rehashed the story. Why not a new race from another part of the galaxy, or even another galaxy? :/
They explain his motives and you even feel like he might even be a bit of a good guy. He has every reason to do what he does in the movie.

Until you remember who he is, Spock Prime ends up warning Spock about him which is when you remember how much of a cunt he is. It's not really a rehash either, the plot is very different from either TOS or TWOK. I'd say the ending is more of a homage.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:18 PM   #1280
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Phily B wrote: View Post
If I was gonna be nitpicky, I'd say Admiral Marcus' plan was a little weird. What was the point in putting all the augments into torpedoes? Did he plan for Kirk to fire them at Kronos and detonate them? Or were they going to land on Kronos and cause havoc there? I know Marcus was going to destroy the Enterprise regardless of what happened on Kronos, but still....

Also was kinda hoping for a little more pew pew, it was just the Vengeance owning the Enterprise and that was it. No other Starfleet ships within range of Earth?!
When has there ever been a starship near in Earth in a trek movie?

"We're the only ship in the QUADRANT."- James Kirk TWOK
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Old May 9 2013, 04:19 PM   #1281
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I saw it. I'm still buzzing far too much to form coherent sentences about it.

Here's what I didn't like:
Spock's "KHAAAAAN!" which was unbelievably awful. The reverse Wrath of Khan was a nice idea, but Kirk's miraculous revival right afterward made it feel cheap.

What I did like: EVERYTHING ELSE. Bring on the next one!
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Old May 9 2013, 04:21 PM   #1282
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Chu'lak wrote: View Post
Phily B wrote: View Post
If I was gonna be nitpicky, I'd say Admiral Marcus' plan was a little weird. What was the point in putting all the augments into torpedoes? Did he plan for Kirk to fire them at Kronos and detonate them? Or were they going to land on Kronos and cause havoc there? I know Marcus was going to destroy the Enterprise regardless of what happened on Kronos, but still....

Also was kinda hoping for a little more pew pew, it was just the Vengeance owning the Enterprise and that was it. No other Starfleet ships within range of Earth?!
When has there ever been a starship near in Earth in a trek movie?

"We're the only ship in the QUADRANT."- James Kirk TWOK
Haha, I guess it does make sense because even in TNG they only had that shitty Mars defense line to try stop The Borg which was about 3 shuttles. I'm just hoping to see something like First Contact, but with an even bigger budget.

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I saw it. I'm still buzzing far too much to form coherent sentences about it.

Here's what I didn't like:
Spock's "KHAAAAAN!" which was unbelievably awful. The reverse Wrath of Khan was a nice idea, but Kirk's miraculous revival right afterward made it feel cheap.

What I did like: EVERYTHING ELSE. Bring on the next one!
I agree, it was a little too parodyish even though looking back I didn't mind it.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:38 PM   #1283
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

stargirl wrote: View Post
But because it was such a blatant re-creation of that specific scene, it was difficult for me to NOT think about it :/ I got there eventually though, sort of, and it's why I want to go see it again- to try and force myself, now that I know what to expect, to NOT compare it to WoK
Is it any different to ST:TMP being a remake of "The Changeling"?

As a Trek newbie in December 1979, I had absolutely no idea of the storyline of "The Changeling", but for most TOS fans of the day, the blatant remake (without any of the characters remembering Nomad) was inexcusable. But movies based on TV shows aren't made for the small percentage of diehard fans who'll be in attendance - and the general public don't usually notice.

Ditto the approach of a probe in ST IV, only two movies after TMP featured the approach of a probe - and then the Klingons firing on one in ST V!
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Old May 9 2013, 04:44 PM   #1284
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

I loved all the fanwankiness.

I tried to explain it to my Star Trek hating husband and son. They just said 'Stop the nerd talk' and thought it was good - better than expected, better than any of the other Star Trek movies

Nimoy is so cool!
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Old May 9 2013, 04:49 PM   #1285
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Chu'lak wrote: View Post
stargirl wrote: View Post
Franklin wrote: View Post
Given the "bromance" part of the story and Spock still dealing with his emotions and the loss of his mother and Vulcan, Spock's primal shout of, "Khaaaaan!" is far more appropriate than Kirk's was in TWOK. It's the straw that broke the camel's back. First his mom and Vulcan, and now Kirk? No wonder he goes on a tirade.

The thing that's too bad is so many folks only think of, "Khaaaaaaaan," as some sort of joke. It almost always gets snickers, now. More people probably remember Costanza yelling it on "Seinfeld" than remember it from TWOK.

To me, Spock yelling it seems like it would be one of the most emotionally poignant parts of the movie. It doesn't deserve comparison to the cheesy version, even if the writers invited it. There's far more gravitas this time. It's sincere. It conveys true pain and loathing.
yeah, like I said in my original post about it - once I could ignore my brain going 'THIS IS DIRECTLY FROM WOK AND SHATNER AND KHAAAAAN' I honestly felt like ZQ, and the movie, sold it. (particularly, like you said, because they'd built up his trouble with loss stemming from vulcan, and his family, and not wanting to experience that again). But because it was such a blatant re-creation of that specific scene, it was difficult for me to NOT think about it :/ I got there eventually though, sort of, and it's why I want to go see it again- to try and force myself, now that I know what to expect, to NOT compare it to WoK

Kirk's KHAAAAN in TWOK made no sense. he knew he was just buying time for Spock to repair the enterprise and beam them out in 2 hours. Was that just theatrics to fool khan into thinking he didnt have that ace up his sleave?
Yes. Kirk's shout was pure theatrics. He wasn't aware they'd get to hang out in the area Marcus created, but he knew Spock and the Enterprise would be back, soon.
It also opened up one of the biggest plot holes I thought TWOK had. How could Khan and his superior intellect ever believe he really stranded Kirk? (Buried alive, buried alive, buried alive.) He really thought no one would come looking for Kirk? Ever? Eh. Maybe his thinking was being clouded by going crazy.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:52 PM   #1286
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Phily B wrote: View Post
If I was gonna be nitpicky, I'd say Admiral Marcus' plan was a little weird. What was the point in putting all the augments into torpedoes? Did he plan for Kirk to fire them at Kronos and detonate them? Or were they going to land on Kronos and cause havoc there? I know Marcus was going to destroy the Enterprise regardless of what happened on Kronos, but still....
Khan put his people into those torpedoes, not Marcus.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:54 PM   #1287
Phily B
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

beamMe wrote: View Post
Phily B wrote: View Post
If I was gonna be nitpicky, I'd say Admiral Marcus' plan was a little weird. What was the point in putting all the augments into torpedoes? Did he plan for Kirk to fire them at Kronos and detonate them? Or were they going to land on Kronos and cause havoc there? I know Marcus was going to destroy the Enterprise regardless of what happened on Kronos, but still....
Khan put his people into those torpedoes, not Marcus.
Oh, that makes more sense.
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Old May 9 2013, 05:10 PM   #1288
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Sorry if I appear a bit thick but did Admiral Marcus know Khans guys were in the torpedoes and why did Khan think his people were dead when he put them in there?

Maybe I'll watch it more carefully next time I see it
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Old May 9 2013, 05:13 PM   #1289
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Flake wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
Yes, the percentage will improve considerably by May 19.
We don't know that. I have a feeling it will be high 70s/low 80s in the end. Thats my guess anyway.
The score at Rotten Tomatoes has climbed back to 89 percent.
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Old May 9 2013, 05:15 PM   #1290
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

King Daniel wrote: View Post
I saw it. I'm still buzzing far too much to form coherent sentences about it.

Here's what I didn't like:
Spock's "KHAAAAAN!" which was unbelievably awful. The reverse Wrath of Khan was a nice idea, but Kirk's miraculous revival right afterward made it feel cheap.

What I did like: EVERYTHING ELSE. Bring on the next one!
Ugh. I knew that was a bad idea.
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