RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 137,918
Posts: 5,331,486
Members: 24,557
Currently online: 564
Newest member: PlayerUp

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: Inquisition
By: Michelle on Jul 12

Cubify Star Trek 3DMe Mini Figurines
By: T'Bonz on Jul 11

Latest Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Jul 10

Seven of Nine Bobble Head
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

Pegg The Prankster
By: T'Bonz on Jul 9

More Trek Stars Join Unbelievable!!!!!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

Star Trek #35 Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 8

New ThinkGeek Trek Apparel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Star Trek Movie Prop Auction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7

Drexler: NX Engineering Room Construction
By: T'Bonz on Jul 7


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 9 2013, 10:24 AM   #736
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Not for me because I don't care for it, or not for me because I'm not allowed?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 01:03 PM   #737
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

You're not good enough. The buzzer has sounded.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 01:11 PM   #738
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Operation: Voyager Edition.

So you have to extract Neelix from Tuvok, or Janeway from Seven with those special pliers tongs but every time you tug on the wrong bit hir bright red bulbous nosebuzzer buzzes.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 01:16 PM   #739
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

And why would I want to extract Janeway from Seven?

But yes, this thread is one long irritating buzzing noise from the tewwible tweezers failing to keep Tuvok and Neelix's insides straight.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 01:22 PM   #740
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

There was a line in the new movie I saw today which directly impacted on this thread.

I laughed.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 01:28 PM   #741
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Spoiler tag it!
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 01:44 PM   #742
Pingfah
Admiral
 
Pingfah's Avatar
 
Location: Cornwall, UK
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

After needlessly destroying the lives of her whole crew, sparing them from having to suffer the dickhead Tuvix for another 70 years or so was the least she could do.
__________________
So it goes.
Pingfah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 02:04 PM   #743
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 02:11 PM   #744
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 02:41 PM   #745
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

The say he was a creep because Kes felt Molested because he loved her like Neelix did and she didn't reciprocate... That sounds like they're gearing up for a rape story. She's being fickle and he's being entitled it's a volatile mix.

If he had forced himself on the little girl, legally I'm assuming that Tuvix would be forced to serve jail time? Although if there's no mental illness in the future, then maybe there's no rape so all the laws against rape have fallen into disrepair.

But my point is

A. Tuvix deserves death for forcing himself on Kes.
B. Tuvix Deserves ten years in the brig, so A he's allowed to disintergrate into his components, or B he's not allowed to split into Tuvok and Neelix as it's seen as a clever jail break, or C Janeway still forces the split, and afterwards Neelix and Tuvok both have to serve half of Tuvixes sentence of their conviction.

Hmmm...

ANKARI: They say they want the humans to die.
TUVOK: A difficult place to start a negotiation.
JANEWAY: Will they understand me?
ANKARI: Yes.
JANEWAY: We didn't do this to you. We're trying to stop the humans who did.
ANKARI: They don't believe you would harm your own kind.
JANEWAY: We have rules for behaviour. The Equinox has broken those rules by killing your species. It's our duty to stop them.
ANKARI: Give us the Equinox. Give us the Equinox! They insist on destroying the ones who are responsible.
TUVOK: We will punish them according to our own rules. They will be imprisoned. They will lose their freedom.
JANEWAY: All right! If you stop your attacks, I'll deliver the Equinox to you!.
TUVOK: Captain.
JANEWAY: I know what I'm doing, Tuvok.
TUVOK: These beings would destroy Captain Ransom and his crew.
JANEWAY: What's their answer?
TUVOK: Your behaviour is irrational. We could find another solution.
JANEWAY: I've already confined my first Officer to quarters. Would you like to join him? Well?
ANKARI: They agree,
Look at this.

Tuvok and Janeway in a serious disagreement about whether she should or should not murder Ransom.

Wow!
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 03:27 PM   #746
Captain Atkin
Commander
 
Captain Atkin's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Atkin, the Borg has assimilated hundreds of Starfleet vessels, and dozens of neutral Zone outposts, & they had downloaded detailed databases and copied the minds and souls of MANY Starfleet Captains.

Been there, done that.

One person is not a civilization, and neither is one Starship.

Do you remember what Janeway's plan was before she teamed up with Borg to stop 8472?

To slink through Borg Space for 10 YEARS and hope that the Collective didn't notice her.

Either I'm right, and slinking is a possibility or Janeway was in some serious denial about how the next decade of her life wasn't going to be spent mostly as a Borg Drone.

The Borg let armed commandos wander through their ships who are up to nary no good.

Have you every tried to pick a fight with a hippy?

Too stoned to give a crap?
In "I, Borg", it was said the the collective do not assimilate individuals. This is generally true, but we have seen instances where the Borg did assimilate individuals. Voyager is 'a collective' of aliens, and they do have technology that the Borg would be interested in assimilating. The Borg do attack and assimilate starships. Voyager was an advanced starship, so I don't think it is a case of "been there, done that". Starfleet is viewed as a threat by the Borg Queen, so I don't doubt for a second that she would assimilate a Starfleet vessel that was flying around in the Delta Quadrant. If the Borg assessed and determined that Voyager's biological and/or technological distinctiveness was worthy of being added to the Collective's perfection, they would assimilate them in a heartbeat.

When the USS Raven was first detected by a Borg vessel it was disregarded by them. When the Raven was detected a second time, 7 of 9's father had developed technologies that could elude the Borg's sensors, making them a more worthy target. Even though there was just 3 people onboard the small ship, they were all assimilated. Voyager developed new technologies during their travels through the Delta Quadrant, so that would make them desirable for assimiliation too.

As for Janeway's plan to slink through Borg space, hoping not to get detected... well... let's just say that Janeway made a lot of questionable decisions over the course of the series. Case in point: killing Tuvix.
Captain Atkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 03:56 PM   #747
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Voyager was lost in 2371.

First contact happened in 2373.

Scorpion happened in 2374.

Seven of Nine knew about the Borg's involvement in 2063.

They wouldn't know that Voyager had something unique to offer until after they'd popped the hood, and they're not going to do that unless it looked like Voyager had something to offer, which it probably didn't since Voyager was at least 2 years behind the most recent ship which they had assimilated in First Contact.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 09:45 PM   #748
Gov Kodos
Vice Admiral
 
Gov Kodos's Avatar
 
Location: Gov Kodos Regretably far from Boston
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The say he was a creep because Kes felt Molested because he loved her like Neelix did and she didn't reciprocate... That sounds like they're gearing up for a rape story. She's being fickle and he's being entitled it's a volatile mix.

If he had forced himself on the little girl, legally I'm assuming that Tuvix would be forced to serve jail time? Although if there's no mental illness in the future, then maybe there's no rape so all the laws against rape have fallen into disrepair.

But my point is

A. Tuvix deserves death for forcing himself on Kes.
B. Tuvix Deserves ten years in the brig, so A he's allowed to disintergrate into his components, or B he's not allowed to split into Tuvok and Neelix as it's seen as a clever jail break, or C Janeway still forces the split, and afterwards Neelix and Tuvok both have to serve half of Tuvixes sentence of their conviction.

Hmmm...

ANKARI: They say they want the humans to die.
TUVOK: A difficult place to start a negotiation.
JANEWAY: Will they understand me?
ANKARI: Yes.
JANEWAY: We didn't do this to you. We're trying to stop the humans who did.
ANKARI: They don't believe you would harm your own kind.
JANEWAY: We have rules for behaviour. The Equinox has broken those rules by killing your species. It's our duty to stop them.
ANKARI: Give us the Equinox. Give us the Equinox! They insist on destroying the ones who are responsible.
TUVOK: We will punish them according to our own rules. They will be imprisoned. They will lose their freedom.
JANEWAY: All right! If you stop your attacks, I'll deliver the Equinox to you!.
TUVOK: Captain.
JANEWAY: I know what I'm doing, Tuvok.
TUVOK: These beings would destroy Captain Ransom and his crew.
JANEWAY: What's their answer?
TUVOK: Your behaviour is irrational. We could find another solution.
JANEWAY: I've already confined my first Officer to quarters. Would you like to join him? Well?
ANKARI: They agree,
Look at this.

Tuvok and Janeway in a serious disagreement about whether she should or should not murder Ransom.

Wow!
She's extraditing him to the Ankari, who will use intensive questioning techniques.
__________________
We are quicksilver, a fleeting shadow, a distant sound... our home has no boundaries beyond which we cannot pass. We live in music, in a flash of color... we live on the wind and in the sparkle of a star!' Endora on witches in Bewitched
Gov Kodos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 11:26 PM   #749
JanewayRulz!
Vice Admiral
 
JanewayRulz!'s Avatar
 
Location: North America
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

JANEWAY: All right! If you stop your attacks, I'll deliver the Equinox to you!.
Sounds like she was agreeing to turn over the SHIP to the Ankari... not Ransom.

Too bad the Ankari are not familiar with Federation Doublespeak.

Shocking to consider, (after how many years with Janeway???) that TUVOK was equally unfamiliar with Janeway Doublespeak.

if there's no mental illness in the future, then maybe there's no rape...


Uhhh... are you excusing current rapists from their actions because you feel they are mentally ill?

__________________
"But life is a battle: may we all be enabled to fight it well!" Charlotte Bronte
JanewayRulz! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 10 2013, 12:08 AM   #750
R. Star
Rear Admiral
 
R. Star's Avatar
 
Location: Shangri-La
Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

Um... that's just a bit of a stretch isn't it? Seems to me there's a big difference between saying mentally ill people commit rape and saying people who commit rape aren't at fault because they're mentally ill.
__________________
"I was never a Star Trek fan." J.J. Abrams
R. Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
janeway

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.