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Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 8 2013, 03:21 AM   #16
AggieJohn
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

I don't know of any novels or anything but I always had it in my mind that it would have been nice to have had Spock marry the Romulan Commander from the Enterprise Incident. One might figure that she would be reluctant to go back to Romulus after losing the cloaking device to Kirk and the Enterprise. I doubt that they would be cool with that, might make an example of her.

Spock, having shown some interest, real or not, would if nothing else appreciate her concerns about being an alien among humans and might reach out to her. Starting a long term relationship with her. This might even be a reason that Spock works so hard to normalize relations between Vulcan and Romulus.

I could have even see it where Saavik was actual his daughter, something she keeps secret so as to stand on her on merit, compromising with her father in accepting a sponsorship from him at the academy.
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Old May 8 2013, 03:23 AM   #17
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Protegé, yes. Adopted daughter, no. There's never been any indication of that. It would not be any kind of creepy for Spock and Saavik to be married.
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Old May 8 2013, 09:38 AM   #18
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

AggieJohn wrote: View Post
This might even be a reason that Spock works so hard to normalize relations between Vulcan and Romulus.
This makes sense.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Adopted daughter, no.
In a formal sense perhaps not, although I can easily see Saavik being legally Spock's adopted daughter if you buy into the Saavik back story of being a half Vulcan half Romulan from a Romulan planet and Spock found her and took her into his family. That's all non-canon conjecture of course.

If she was only the equivalent of a "ward of the court," and Spock was raising her as her guardian, future marriage still creepy and wrong.

Now if Spock never once laid eyes on Saavik prior to her becoming one of his students, then we talking about something different.

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Old May 8 2013, 09:55 AM   #19
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
future marriage still creepy and wrong.
You are judging the novel's premise without reading the novel.

It is handled very... logically. The couple were intimate, to save Spock's life, in ST III. Spock didn't raise her as a daughter. (Their previous relationship had been more teacher/student.) Spock and Saavik then went many decades avoiding the issue and both faced lonely, single lives, neither having met a new partner. Perhaps because of the bonds formed during ST III.

Eventually, as two grown, long-lived, lone adult Vulcans, they decided to initiate a different relationship. They hadn't been teacher/student for decades.
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Old May 8 2013, 09:21 PM   #20
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

I'm pretty sure it's stated in Amok Time or ST: TSFS, Vulcans under go Pon Farr every 7th year of their adult life. And we know it is 15 - 16 years from Amok Time to ST:TSFS. So he would have to have had 1 or 2 Pon Farr episodes since then. I guess he could have found any woman and not been married. But that would be out of character.

On another note, I remember reading somewhere that Saavik is pregnant in ST: TVH. But if you count the novelization for ST: TSFS, it could be Spocks or Davids child. I never read the novel for TVH. It wasn't one of my favorite films.
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Old May 8 2013, 09:24 PM   #21
USS Firefly
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

When did Saavik and David been having seks?
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Old May 8 2013, 09:45 PM   #22
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

USS Firefly wrote: View Post
When did Saavik and David been having seks?
Novelization of 3rd novel says it starts before they leave Enterprise for Grissom. And I think it happened on Grissom as well.

But that's just from the novel for TSFS.
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Old May 9 2013, 04:43 PM   #23
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Leila Kalomi
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Old May 9 2013, 04:49 PM   #24
Greg Cox
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
^ Don't follow the novels myself, and there is something just generally creepy about Spock one day marrying his adopted daughter and protege.

Icky.

My personal preferance would be for Spock's wife to be someone else.


Fair enough. Although it should be noted that the whole business about Saavik being his "adopted daughter" is also from the books and comics and other non-canonical sources. If we're going strictly by the movies, then Saavik was simply a promising student whom he is mentoring.

And the books certainly didn't make up the part about them hooking up on the Genesis Planet. (Although, granted, there were extenuating circumstances.)

I remember that, back in the day, a lot of fans assumed that Saavik was pregnant with Spock's child when she was left behind on Vulcan in the fourth movie . . . .
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Old May 10 2013, 09:33 PM   #25
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

I think ponn farr is a young man's syndrome, something like puberty but it recurs a couple of times.
Actually, VOY "Gravity" sort of suggests it only becomes worse with age. At least if it goes untreated, one way or another...

I'm pretty sure it's stated in Amok Time or ST: TSFS, Vulcans under go Pon Farr every 7th year of their adult life.
"Amok Time" makes no mention of a seven-year cycle. "Cloud Minders" has this exchange, though:

Droxine: "You only take a mate once every seven years?"
Spock: "The seven-year cycle is biologically inherent in all Vulcans. At that time, the mating drive outweighs all other motivations."
We don't get an exact description of what this seven-year cycle is, but it seems to be related to this "taking a mate" thing Droxine asks about. It doesn't follow that Spock would experience this full pon farr thing every seven years, though - merely that he'd have a strong urge to find a mate every seven years.

It's not until ENT "Bounty" that we hear for certain that females get pon farr, too (Spock was gender-unspecific in "Cloud Minders" but that wasn't explicit enough yet, and he might not have been talking about pon farr in the first place). But "Bounty" fails to tell that pon farr would happen every seven years; it's just something that hits T'Pol at that time, with no mention of it possibly recurring. (Circumstances cause it to hit T'Pol too early, though: she says "it's not time", as if she knew when to expect the phenomenon. But she never says she would have experienced it before.)

So, as far as we can tell, pon farr may well be a once-in-a-lifetime experience for Vulcans of both genders, coinciding with the seven-year mating cycle but not being an integral and recurring part of it. It's merely the crowning moment of your mate-finding urge, perhaps hitting you on the very first round of your seven-year cycle, perhaps lurking until some later round.

Spock experienced it only once AFAWK - until being reborn, at which time he again only apparently experienced it once despite supposedly maturing through several decades. Vorik experienced it once (VOY "Blood Fever"), perhaps because he had no mate yet. Tuvok experienced it, too, despite previous experience, but perhaps because he had no telepathic connection to the mate he already had. His still remains the only confirmed case of a repeat performance of pon farr...

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Old May 11 2013, 04:57 AM   #26
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Adopted daughter, no.
In a formal sense perhaps not, although I can easily see Saavik being legally Spock's adopted daughter if you buy into the Saavik back story of being a half Vulcan half Romulan from a Romulan planet and Spock found her and took her into his family. That's all non-canon conjecture of course.
My memory's a little shaky on this one, but didn't at least one of the novels have Saavik adopted by Sarek & Amanda? So instead of his daughter, Spock would have married his adoptive sister.

So... yeah.
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Old May 11 2013, 09:12 AM   #27
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Protegé, yes. Adopted daughter, no. There's never been any indication of that. It would not be any kind of creepy for Spock and Saavik to be married.
Spock called Saavik Saavikam in TWOK and in my mind that's him treating Saavik as some kind of daughter.
So I don't like the idea of them testing together - creepy

And teacher/student that's sort if creepy too
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Old May 11 2013, 09:17 AM   #28
R. Star
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Protegé, yes. Adopted daughter, no. There's never been any indication of that. It would not be any kind of creepy for Spock and Saavik to be married.
Spock called Saavik Saavikam in TWOK and in my mind that's him treating Saavik as some kind of daughter.
So I don't like the idea of them testing together - creepy

And teacher/student that's sort if creepy too
Unless I really missed something in the novels I haven't read, I never saw anything on screen to suggest any paternal roles. Spock was in a mentor role certainly, and they probably were something of kindred spirits, but nothing to rule out any romance.
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Old May 11 2013, 09:57 AM   #29
Destructor
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Protegé, yes. Adopted daughter, no. There's never been any indication of that. It would not be any kind of creepy for Spock and Saavik to be married.
Spock called Saavik Saavikam in TWOK and in my mind that's him treating Saavik as some kind of daughter.

And teacher/student that's sort if creepy too
I assumed Savikam was the Vulcan pronunciation of Saavik.

Yes, never in the course of history has a professor ended up marrying one of their previous students. No, wait, EVERY Professor who has ever been married did so to one of their previous students.
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Old May 11 2013, 10:34 AM   #30
CommishSleer
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Re: Who is Spock's wife(or mate)?

Destructor wrote: View Post
CommishSleer wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Protegé, yes. Adopted daughter, no. There's never been any indication of that. It would not be any kind of creepy for Spock and Saavik to be married.
Spock called Saavik Saavikam in TWOK and in my mind that's him treating Saavik as some kind of daughter.

And teacher/student that's sort if creepy too
I assumed Savikam was the Vulcan pronunciation of Saavik.
In my own head canon perhaps influenced by reading hundreds of fan stories - the KAM means son or daughter or baby or something like that.
I sort of thought the same thing while watching TWOK - way before my mind was corrupted by evil fanfiction. And I thought it was pretty obvious that Saavik and David had something going on and she wouldn't do that if she were Spock's girl - would she?
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