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Old May 8 2013, 03:43 PM   #16
MacLeod
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
I'd be wary of the Star Trek future in which the whole Earth falls under one government. It's apparently a prerequisite for us to found the Federation, in which every planet counts as one member (but we're the big dog and don't forget it ). Even so, it has disadvantages.

A single government for the Earth would have so many citizens that it simply could not be responsive to them. We'd be ruled by distant elites who would not necessarily share our values and priorities (much like the European Union today, in the eyes of many of its people).

And those elites wouldn't need to be responsive. A government with six billion constituents would not have to answer to any of them. Assuming you even had an elected representative in the legislature, he would either be powerless because the legislature is so large, or he would have so many constituents that you would mean nothing to him.
The main problem with the EU is not so much different values and priorities, though that maybe part of it, it is that the elected officals have a disconnect with the electorate. Even in the some more pro-EU countries in recent years if there has been a referendum on an EU matter it has been rejected (not always). All this means is that the politicans didn't do a good enough job of explaining what benefits it would bring. Remember the EU grew out of a free-trade zone (i.e. economic community) most Europeans don't have an issue with it acting as a free-trade zone.

As for how the United Earth Government works in ST, we know virtually nothing about how it works. Though ENT hinted that it was a Parliamentary based system. For all we know there is a lot of devolved power to regions on Earth. Who handle the day to day matters, whilst the United Earth Government handles intersteallar matters for the most part.
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Old May 8 2013, 03:53 PM   #17
dub
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

But don't forget -- everyone is enlightened. There are no wars on earth, so there are no haters. Nobody would have a desire to use a warp drive to set up their own -ocracy. Everyone is holding hands and singing "Kumbaya" (with the words "my Lord" replaced with "my friend," of course).
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Old May 8 2013, 06:28 PM   #18
Merry Christmas
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

EliyahuQeoni wrote: View Post
1) What makes you think you'd have no say in it? You would presumably have representation in the government.
Assuming that Earthgov is a representational government, instead of say a meritocracy where "the best" government officials are simply selected (by people already in the meritocracy of course) and not elected by the general populace.

Can't have those average people making important decisions.


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Old May 8 2013, 06:37 PM   #19
horatio83
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

War and hunger always impact the weakest and poorest people so how can any central Earth government but one which is far more democratic than our contemporary Western liberal democracies abolish war and hunger?
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Old May 8 2013, 07:15 PM   #20
Anwar
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

horatio83 wrote: View Post
War and hunger always impact the weakest and poorest people so how can any central Earth government but one which is far more democratic than our contemporary Western liberal democracies abolish war and hunger?
Well, knowing that we're not alone anymore and the Galaxy was now open to us would probably serve as a wake-up call that there really was no further point to war on Earth.

Hunger? Well, Earth by then had a seriously reduced population and plenty of extrasolar resources.
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Old May 8 2013, 07:20 PM   #21
Squiggy Claus
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

ZapBrannigan wrote: View Post
A single government for the Earth would have so many citizens that it simply could not be responsive to them. We'd be ruled by distant elites who would not necessarily share our values and priorities (much like the European Union today, in the eyes of many of its people).
What's the maximum number of citizens that's acceptable to you?
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Old May 8 2013, 11:28 PM   #22
R. Star
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

The problem with a world government is it would be governed by the people of the world.

The Laughing Vulcan wrote: View Post
I think a United Earth would work simply because of warp drive. That would allow any element that couldn't play with the majority to leave and set up their own -ocracy elsewhere.

I'm sure by the time there is a United Earth, there Planet Talibania, Planet Kim Jong, Planet Unionist, and the like out there. By the 24th Century, they did show Planet Native American not wanting to be too tied to the Federation anymore...
I see this happening before humanity unites too. Fact of the matter is there are people who simply wouldn't want to be part of a global nation. Be it because they want to rule one, because they simply don't want to water down their culture and way of life, or don't trust the concept of a bloated world government when smaller nations can't even govern their nations efficiently.
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Old May 8 2013, 11:56 PM   #23
LobsterAfternoon
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

It's a utopian future. The politicians of United Earth might actually give a crap about their electorate.
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Old May 9 2013, 12:00 AM   #24
cheesepuff316
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

The Johnson wrote: View Post
Does everyone on earth speak English in the star trek future?
-- This is just my opinion, feel free to politely disagree --

English is already one of if not the most widely spoken language on Earth already. I assume that there are still other languages used by humans living wherever but for the sake of simplicity, representatives of Earth speak English.....

I think that it would similar to a local / central government style in that there would still be national governments deciding things, but any major changes that will affect how the whole planet interacts with other species are decided by the Planet Government.....

As proved by Picard / Chakotay, national culture is still very important and defines how people live but they can still get along with others despite any cultural differences.

This basically says it all...
http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Human
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Old May 9 2013, 12:05 AM   #25
C.E. Evans
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

Personally, I saw the United Earth as being a result of first contact with extraterrestrials. The awareness of aliens that could visit Earth at any given time now motivated the vast majority of Earth's surviving nations to set aside most of their differences and band together.

Within the confines of the Federation, the United Earth could almost be akin to a local government, IMO.
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Old May 9 2013, 01:04 AM   #26
R. Star
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

LobsterAfternoon wrote: View Post
It's a utopian future. The politicians of United Earth might actually give a crap about their electorate.
Eh, given the Federation has a track record of most everyone ranked Admiral or higher being either corrupt, stupid or just evil... I'm inclined to think the politicians aren't any better.
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Old May 9 2013, 01:20 AM   #27
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

I fully embrace and support the concept of a true United Earth. I'm not naive enough to think it will happen anytime soon, but I think it's inevitable. Unity is the future.
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Old May 9 2013, 01:24 AM   #28
Sci
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

Hmm. Stay trapped in the cycle of separation, nationalism, conflict, and war? Wars which inevitably only benefit the unelected wealthy elite and undermine both liberty and democracy? Or unite as one people, who join together to create a progressive, planetary democracy -- and then join with other worlds to create a progressive, interstellar democracy?

Gosh. I can't imagine which I'd prefer.

And one need only live in any small town dominated by a good ol' boys network to know that a smaller government is no indication it won't be dominated by uncaring elites.
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Old May 9 2013, 01:55 AM   #29
Nightdiamond
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

I think Trek's United Earth concept is 45% philosophy, 35% practicality, 20% politics.

Most of the idea seems to leans towards cultures/nations needing to learn to get along in order to advance.

I take this to mean that a lot of religious, cultural, and behavioral baggage from around the world will have to be left behind in order for that to happen.

In one episode, having only one planet-wide government was a basic requirement for Federation membership. If a culture didn't have one, they were generally ineligible to join.

It would probably drives conspiracy theorists crazy, but how else would humans finally "get there"?
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Old May 9 2013, 02:26 AM   #30
Third Nacelle
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Re: United Earth? No Thanks.

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
I take this to mean that a lot of religious, cultural, and behavioral baggage from around the world will have to be left behind in order for that to happen.
I'd imagine that over the centuries, increased mobility paired with instantaneous worldwide communication (the netz) would eventually erase cultural differences.

As sad as it sounds, it's already happening - about 2 languages die every month. Dialects of American English are losing their distinctiveness. People are abandoning religion. A Chinese man and his Canadian wife can get a delicious Ethiopian meal in Rome.

The internet is only speeding this process up.
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