RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 135,755
Posts: 5,216,232
Members: 24,216
Currently online: 848
Newest member: kasmuruis

TrekToday headlines

Q Meets NuTrek Crew
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

Pine In Talks For Drama
By: T'Bonz on Apr 18

New X-Men: Days of Future Past Trailer
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Nimoy to Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Apr 17

Star Trek Special: Flesh and Stone Comic
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

These Are The Voyages TOS Season Two Book Review
By: T'Bonz on Apr 16

Kirk’s Well Wishes To Kirk
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Quinto In New Starz Series
By: T'Bonz on Apr 15

Star Trek: Horizon Film
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14

Star Trek: Fleet Captains Game Expansion
By: T'Bonz on Apr 14


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 8 2013, 09:44 AM   #871
Salinga
Captain
 
Salinga's Avatar
 
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Mr_Homn wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
cbspock wrote: View Post
The way he viewed the "TNG verse" was bad for TV Drama. I think that is where a lot of their criticism comes from. I think it is deserved. People will have conflicts it is in our nature. People are not always going to agree, we aren't a bunch of drones.
-Chris
I don't know. While I understand the frustration of the writers, I've personally always loved the respectful, mature, and professional way the TNG characters acted around each other-- and how there weren't the kind of petty disagreements and soap opera nonsense like we see on every other show.
Agreed. Television drama tropes and cliches be damned, I thought that the TNG crew operated more like a realistic working environment because of the lack of over-the-top contrived conflict between crew members.
I agree also. The writers were frustrated, because Roddenberry's "box" forced them to think outside the usual box of conflict that writers use. Roddenberry's vision for TNG was to show a different culture, not just the 21st century culture in a 24th century setting. For writers it is always more easy to just take todays human behaviour and put it into another surrounding - just because it makes their job easier (easy earned money). Because of Roddenberry's rules they could not do just that. They actually had to wrap their mind around human beeings that behaved different than they do today.

I lost interest in DS9 during the later seasons, when it pretty much became a show about 21st century culture in the 24th century setting of Star Trek. It became boring to me, because it was just the usual stuff. The writers of course loved it, because it was much easier for them to do their job. And maybe some viewers too, because they could relate better to the characters, since they behaved not so much different anymore like todays characters. I personally didnt, because that is not why I watch Star Trek.
Salinga is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 11:13 AM   #872
NewHorizon
Captain
 
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Salinga wrote: View Post
I lost interest in DS9 during the later seasons, when it pretty much became a show about 21st century culture in the 24th century setting of Star Trek. It became boring to me, because it was just the usual stuff. The writers of course loved it, because it was much easier for them to do their job. And maybe some viewers too, because they could relate better to the characters, since they behaved not so much different anymore like todays characters. I personally didnt, because that is not why I watch Star Trek.
I lost interest for those very same reasons. There was conflict, drama and action but it was, like you said, the usual stuff. I didn't find it believable that the people of that time would be acting so much like us. TNG felt much more real to me and actually gave me something to aspire to.
NewHorizon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 12:01 PM   #873
mr.peany
Fleet Captain
 
mr.peany's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to mr.peany
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

It's the same issue I had with DS9 post s4. Very little exploring, boring drab colours and the same monotonous war which kept on going and going and going. Sure, it was good for what it was but it didn't provide any where near the enjoyment I get whilst watching TNG.
__________________
Marge: "Oh no, how will the kids get home?"
Homer : "I dunno, internet?"
^Problem solving, Homer Simpson style.
http://unoland.myminicity.com/
mr.peany is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 12:37 PM   #874
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Why are we talking about reasons we don't like Deep Space Nine in a TNG Season Three BluRay thread?
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 02:22 PM   #875
cbspock
Rear Admiral
 
cbspock's Avatar
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Salinga wrote: View Post
Mr_Homn wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post

I don't know. While I understand the frustration of the writers, I've personally always loved the respectful, mature, and professional way the TNG characters acted around each other-- and how there weren't the kind of petty disagreements and soap opera nonsense like we see on every other show.
Agreed. Television drama tropes and cliches be damned, I thought that the TNG crew operated more like a realistic working environment because of the lack of over-the-top contrived conflict between crew members.
I agree also. The writers were frustrated, because Roddenberry's "box" forced them to think outside the usual box of conflict that writers use. Roddenberry's vision for TNG was to show a different culture, not just the 21st century culture in a 24th century setting. For writers it is always more easy to just take todays human behaviour and put it into another surrounding - just because it makes their job easier (easy earned money). Because of Roddenberry's rules they could not do just that. They actually had to wrap their mind around human beeings that behaved different than they do today.

I lost interest in DS9 during the later seasons, when it pretty much became a show about 21st century culture in the 24th century setting of Star Trek. It became boring to me, because it was just the usual stuff. The writers of course loved it, because it was much easier for them to do their job. And maybe some viewers too, because they could relate better to the characters, since they behaved not so much different anymore like todays characters. I personally didnt, because that is not why I watch Star Trek.

For me it was the opposite. TNG became stilted, boring and pretentious. DS9 went back to more of what was at the heart of the original series, social commentary and action adventure. I think current events eventually caught up with DS9. Homefront / Paradise Lost and the Dominion War issues sure came to the front after 9/11. I think DS9 has aged better, while TNG is stuck in the 80s. Voyager was awful when they tried to be TNG Lite, it was a much better show when it was not trying.

-Chris
__________________
"It's important to give it all you have while you have the chance."-Shania
cbspock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 03:12 PM   #876
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
For me it was the opposite.
Likewise.

Roddenberry's Box was not some technique to get writers to think more creatively or write stories that would add to the overall uniqueness to Star Trek. It was just a tool that Roddenberry insisted on so that his creative input would have a more tangible presence in the show.

And even when it was applied, it wasn't fool proof either. Season 3's episode "The Bonding" is a great example on how the box should never be looked at as an absolute. We have numerous crew members mourning the death of an officer and we see how each one of our characters is affected by it in different ways. Riker feels the heavy weight of loss despite not knowing this crew member very well, Worf is angered about how her death was senseless and Picard takes on the responsibility of informing the their families. But when it comes to the officer's son, the one character who should have been at the very center of this emotional turmoil, we get Roddenberry's Box in action by showcasing Jeremy to be alright with his mother's passing.

And the thing is, I LOVED the parts of the episode where the crew are affected by Aster's death. I never liked the "Red Shirt" syndrome so seeing what should be a red shirt die in an episode and having her death affect the crew not only showcases that these characters actually give a crap about what happens to everyone, but also how they deal with it.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 05:03 PM   #877
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Yeah “The Bonding” is a whole lot better and more well-written than I remembered it being. The idea isn’t anything all that special, but it’s executed surprisingly well, with the alien being genuinely creepy and the crew coming across more tender and human than we’ve probably ever seen them (especially in the scenes between Wesley and his mom and between Wesley and Picard at the end).

I can see now why they hired Ron Moore based off of it.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 05:28 PM   #878
cbspock
Rear Admiral
 
cbspock's Avatar
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Agree on the Bonding. The commentary is really interesting and really telling how restrictive and un-relatable the "box" was. Picard was never liked until they showed he had a human side to him in Best of Both Worlds, and I think from that point forward Picard was a better character. Picard came off like a bureaucrat in a lot of episodes. He would also spout off how great they were, etc. In the original series it was about ideas, and the characters could argue over them, in TNG there was really no other opinion allowed to where it would reach to a major conflict between characters. It just made it hard for the writers to flesh out the various characters. I remember seeing "All good things" and at the end when Picard joins the poker game, my reaction was WTF!! why the hell didn't they do this 4 seasons ago. I think its one reason why the TNG movies don't work, they had to change the dynamics of the characters to work on the big screen, and fans complained the characters were not the same as on the TV series. TOS just aged the characters, gave them some additional insights based on their pasts and took it from there. They amped up the relationship angle between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. They didn't have to change the entire dynamic between all of the characters.

Getting back to the Season 3, Allegiance while not a great episode, it did look really great. The effects shots of the Enterprise wow! Especially the one where she flys above the camera and the shot is looking up toward the bottom of the ship as it enters the system.


-Chris
__________________
"It's important to give it all you have while you have the chance."-Shania
cbspock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 05:47 PM   #879
FrontierTrek
Fleet Captain
 
FrontierTrek's Avatar
 
Location: TrekCore.com
View FrontierTrek's Twitter Profile
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Getting back to the Season 3, Allegiance while not a great episode, it did look really great. The effects shots of the Enterprise wow! Especially the one where she flys above the camera and the shot is looking up toward the bottom of the ship as it enters the system.


-Chris
That's one of my favorite shots from S3. The team did a great job compositing that one
__________________
www.TrekCore.com :: The Net's LARGEST Trek Multimedia Site
Over 450,000 Trek DVD & Blu-Ray Caps from EVERY episode/movie!
FrontierTrek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 06:32 PM   #880
cbspock
Rear Admiral
 
cbspock's Avatar
 
Location: San Antonio, TX
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

I haven't watched the documentaries on the last disc yet, just going through episodes and the commentaries as I make my way to the end of the season. The impression I get from the commentaries is that the show was a big mess behind the scenes. I can't wait to see what played out. Pillar sounds like a real jerk at this point. It sounds like there was more drama going on behind the scenes than in front of the cameras.


-Chris
__________________
"It's important to give it all you have while you have the chance."-Shania
cbspock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 09:35 PM   #881
Flake
Commodore
 
Location: Manchester, UK
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Agree re: Pilller. I always thought that when he came in to TNG he steadied the ship behind the scenes but clearly he did not, almost causing a walk out of the whole writing staff by writing that memo !

It seems as though it was infact Ira Stephen Behr who was keeping it all together!

Gene gets no love on the docs, particularly when he gave his suggestions for Captains Holiday !!
Flake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 10:11 PM   #882
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

cbspock wrote: View Post
Agree on the Bonding. The commentary is really interesting and really telling how restrictive and un-relatable the "box" was. Picard was never liked until they showed he had a human side to him in Best of Both Worlds, and I think from that point forward Picard was a better character. Picard came off like a bureaucrat in a lot of episodes. He would also spout off how great they were, etc. In the original series it was about ideas, and the characters could argue over them, in TNG there was really no other opinion allowed to where it would reach to a major conflict between characters. It just made it hard for the writers to flesh out the various characters. I remember seeing "All good things" and at the end when Picard joins the poker game, my reaction was WTF!! why the hell didn't they do this 4 seasons ago. I think its one reason why the TNG movies don't work, they had to change the dynamics of the characters to work on the big screen, and fans complained the characters were not the same as on the TV series. TOS just aged the characters, gave them some additional insights based on their pasts and took it from there. They amped up the relationship angle between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy. They didn't have to change the entire dynamic between all of the characters.
-Chris
I never really had a problem with Picard's characterization. Obviously at times during the first season he could be a bit cold and unlikeable, but from that point on I thought he came across perfectly fine. He was still a bit of a stuffy diplomatic type of course, but that's what I thought made him so cool and unique.

The more they loosened him up and made him a hunky action hero, the less interesting I thought he actually became.

In fact in the movies it's only when he's giving speeches and getting morally outraged at something that it really feels like "Picard" to me.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 07:37 AM   #883
MikeS
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Liverpool, UK
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Jeyl wrote: View Post
But when it comes to the officer's son, the one character who should have been at the very center of this emotional turmoil, we get Roddenberry's Box in action by showcasing Jeremy to be alright with his mother's passing.
I have to disagree with you here. I thought the portrayal was spot-on. When you unexpectedly lose a parent you do act cool and calm and there's alot to be organised. It is only later that it hits you and you break down, just as Jeremy did.

That said, I am reflecting on my experience as a 30 year old man, not an eight year old boy...
__________________
One day soon, man is going to be able to harness incredible energies, energies that could ultimately hurl us to other worlds in... some sort of spaceship.
MikeS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 08:36 AM   #884
davejames
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Sac, Ca
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Hate to admit it, but "Booby Trap" just isn't working for me as well as it used to. It's obviously got a great atmosphere to it, and the effects and score are still fantastic... but the story just seems so full of holes now.

First there's the conceit that Geordi-- the freakin Chief Engineer-- doesn't know what the interior of his warp core looks like, or have every square inch of that thing already memorized. And instead of consulting with his staff of highly trained engineers (or hell, even Data) during this supposedly urgent crisis, he wastes time talking to a hologram and looking at diagrams he could just as easily have looked at on a computer screen.

And after aaaall that, the solution turns out to be simply using the ship's thrusters to maneuver out of the asteroid field. Something which I HAVE to believe would have already been suggested or tried by someone (and even then, I have to wonder why the thrusters worked so well when the impulse engines clearly didn't; shouldn't they operate on the same basic principle?).

And then finally there's the idea that Picard's reflexes would somehow be better for flying them out of the asteroid field than the lightning-fast reflexes of either the computer or Data. Umm, yeah... sure, whatever you say.
davejames is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 9 2013, 09:34 AM   #885
Patrick O'Brien
Captain
 
Patrick O'Brien's Avatar
 
Location: Brooklyn NY
Re: Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

^You make a solid argument for the "holes" in the story. But I still enjoy the episode because of the great atmosphere, the effects, and the score that are still fantastic
__________________
The bureaucratic mentality is the only constant in the universe.
-Dr. McCoy, Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home
Patrick O'Brien is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
remastered

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.