RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,377
Posts: 5,504,618
Members: 25,125
Currently online: 596
Newest member: Ted Dave

TrekToday headlines

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

Rumor Mill: Saldana Gives Birth
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12

New Line of Anovos Enterprise Uniforms
By: T'Bonz on Dec 11


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 4 2013, 03:10 PM   #16
t_smitts
Commander
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Blowing up the ship at the end really bugged me as well. Surely deploying some warning beacons would've been enough until some more starships came to clear out the assimilators.

Also, quick question: If the planet was the destroyed in the battle where, as Picard says, the Promelians and Menthars "fought to their mutual extinction", who planted the assimilators on the asteroids?
t_smitts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4 2013, 04:20 PM   #17
The Librarian
Commodore
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Good luck getting a photon torpedo over to one of those assimilators in a space suit, given that the radiation is so powerful that it's overwhelming a starship's shields. As for the phasers, it made sense to me - you hit the assimilators with so much concentrated energy in the right form that they can't absorb it and they're destroyed.
The Librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4 2013, 04:59 PM   #18
Ar-Pharazon
Rear Admiral
 
Ar-Pharazon's Avatar
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

I always wondered why they couldn't use a tractor beam from outside the energy field to pull the batlecruiser out.

They reconfigure that damn tractor beam just about every other way when they need to.
__________________
Rimmer, on what period of history to live in-
“Well, It’d be the 19th century for me, one of Napoleon’s marshals.
The chance to march across Europe with the greatest general of all time and kill Belgians” - (White Hole).
Ar-Pharazon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 4 2013, 05:18 PM   #19
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Also, quick question: If the planet was the destroyed in the battle where, as Picard says, the Promelians and Menthars "fought to their mutual extinction", who planted the assimilators on the asteroids?
The dialogue in the beginning is curious.

Wes Crusher: "This was the final battle, wasn't it?"
Data: "Neither side intended Orelious IX to be the decisive conflict."
This makes it sound very much as if Orelious IX was but one of the many battle sites in the conflict. Thus, there would have been many other locations where Promellians and Menthars would have dwelt, and we have no idea whether those were reduced to rubble or not.

The dialogue would be very odd if Orelious IX were the shared homeworld of the two species. How could Wesley distinguish "the final battle" by the location if it's the homeworld yet Data's statement makes it clear that this location wasn't supposed to be the one where the conflict would be solved once and for all? And clearly Wesley is distinguishing the battle by the location, as he refers to the asteroid field when saying "this was the final battle" - there is nothing else he can be referring to, really.

Yet the fight at Orelious IX specifically (rather than the overall war) involved the Promellians and the Menthars fighting to their mutual extinction. Taken literally, that would seem to indicate there were no Promellians or Menthars anywhere else, or at least that any such individuals elsewhere had already perished before this particular battle. But we can just as well assume that there were X Promellians and Y Menthars present in the battle of Orelious IX, and that there were zero survivors - after which the remaining Promellians and Menthars elsewhere continued the war, and the Menthars planted those traps for the Promellians. Orelious IX was merely "decisive" in the sense that X and Y were very large numbers and their elimination crippled both sides, making the rest of the war pale in comparison.

Mind you, if we interpret Data's phrase the above way, no statement remains to the effect that either species would have gone extinct. The Captain of the vessel didn't seem to think he would be the last Promellian in the universe, judging by the message... But if there are Promellians left in the universe, then Picard really should at least have informed them before blowing up their relic of a ship! (Perhaps he sent them a postcard afterwards?)

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 6 2013, 11:34 PM   #20
Gary7
Rear Admiral
 
Gary7's Avatar
 
Location: Near Manhattan ··· in an alternate reality
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

I could never understand why Federation starships are equipped with only energy weapons. Why not a few warheads for alternative fire power? Plus, you can replicate them as long as you've got sufficient power, thus very little inventory limitation. Not everything is susceptible to energy weapons and in the case of "Booby Trap", missiles would've done the job beautifully.
__________________
Remembering Ensign Mallory.
Gary7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 01:30 AM   #21
Takeru
Fleet Captain
 
Takeru's Avatar
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Gary7 wrote: View Post
I could never understand why Federation starships are equipped with only energy weapons. Why not a few warheads for alternative fire power?
Like photon torpedos?
Takeru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 01:47 AM   #22
Gary7
Rear Admiral
 
Gary7's Avatar
 
Location: Near Manhattan ··· in an alternate reality
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Takeru wrote: View Post
Gary7 wrote: View Post
I could never understand why Federation starships are equipped with only energy weapons. Why not a few warheads for alternative fire power?
Like photon torpedos?
It starts out with a hard casing, but when launched it transforms into a massive ball of destructive energy... hence the "photon" prefix to the name.
__________________
Remembering Ensign Mallory.
Gary7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 12:07 PM   #23
The Librarian
Commodore
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Gary7 wrote: View Post
It starts out with a hard casing, but when launched it transforms into a massive ball of destructive energy... hence the "photon" prefix to the name.
Nope, it's still the same missile casing after launch, we've even seen them be retrieved (Worf and Picard went out to chase down one that malfunctioned during a test, for example).
The Librarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 12:32 PM   #24
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Exactly. Leaving the tube and becoming a glowing ball of light does not yet mark a transition from "casing" to "energy"; that apparently only happens at impact.

However, the warhead within can apparently be swapped with relative ease - we have seen these casings loaded with sensors or even live people at times, and supposedly the newfangled "quantum" warheads go into the same casing (since the Defiant has these standard casings aboard).

So if you want a kinetic effect at the target, just install a lump of lead. Or of some superdense material kept stable by treknomagic. Or a gravitic device that gives the torpedo the momentum of an object a thousand times heavier.

We also occasionally learn of our heroes packing various exotic warheads or demolition devices, such as tricobalt weapons or chemical explosives. Phasers and photon torpedoes seem to do the trick in most cases, though.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 04:42 PM   #25
Retu
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Finland
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

jimbotron wrote: View Post
There's further stupidity later in The Hunted. With all the security they have, Danar is able to run up behind a guard who was facing a force field for some silly reason, knock out the guy, and then use the communicator to lower the force field.

Riker asks how he could have done it. How about Danar signaled lower a force field without first identifying himself or providing some kind of authorization code?

Odo was right to chew out Worf when he joined DS9.
Danar uses guard's hand to tap on the combadge. So, maybe communicators only have biometric security?
__________________
"God runs electromagnetics by wave theory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday,
and the Devil runs them by quantum theory on Tuesday, Thursday, and
Saturday."
-Sir William Bragg
Retu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 05:43 PM   #26
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

The biggest crime was destroying the ship, surely they could have just placed a warning becon, to tell others to stay clear, restirct travel to that sector etc.. In the hopes that one day they could come up with a way to recover the ship.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 06:22 PM   #27
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

I got an idea. Put someone in a thruster suit, attach a strong cable to him, have that person attach it to the ship and tow it away.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7 2013, 06:46 PM   #28
Retu
Lieutenant Commander
 
Location: Finland
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Jeyl wrote: View Post
I got an idea. Put someone in a thruster suit, attach a strong cable to him, have that person attach it to the ship and tow it away.
Takes too much time. Radiation will fry them before that. Just because there's no weight in zero gravity, an object still has its mass. A thruster suit just hasn't got enough thrust to move a starship anywhere in any reasonable amount of time. Sure, you can get it moving, just very very very slowly.
__________________
"God runs electromagnetics by wave theory on Monday, Wednesday, and Friday,
and the Devil runs them by quantum theory on Tuesday, Thursday, and
Saturday."
-Sir William Bragg
Retu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 01:10 AM   #29
Jeyl
Commodore
 
Jeyl's Avatar
 
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

Retu wrote: View Post
Jeyl wrote: View Post
I got an idea. Put someone in a thruster suit, attach a strong cable to him, have that person attach it to the ship and tow it away.
Takes too much time. Radiation will fry them before that. Just because there's no weight in zero gravity, an object still has its mass. A thruster suit just hasn't got enough thrust to move a starship anywhere in any reasonable amount of time. Sure, you can get it moving, just very very very slowly.
The other end of the cable would be attached to the Enterprise. And if you're worried about radiation, just put Data in the suit. He can survive time distortions.
Jeyl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2013, 05:22 PM   #30
Gary7
Rear Admiral
 
Gary7's Avatar
 
Location: Near Manhattan ··· in an alternate reality
Re: The stupidity in Booby Trap

What I meant is that the ultimate delivery of a photon torpedo is an energy weapon, even if the hard casing remains intact until impact.
Timo wrote: View Post
Exactly. Leaving the tube and becoming a glowing ball of light does not yet mark a transition from "casing" to "energy"; that apparently only happens at impact.

However, the warhead within can apparently be swapped with relative ease - we have seen these casings loaded with sensors or even live people at times, and supposedly the newfangled "quantum" warheads go into the same casing (since the Defiant has these standard casings aboard).

So if you want a kinetic effect at the target, just install a lump of lead. Or of some superdense material kept stable by treknomagic. Or a gravitic device that gives the torpedo the momentum of an object a thousand times heavier.

We also occasionally learn of our heroes packing various exotic warheads or demolition devices, such as tricobalt weapons or chemical explosives. Phasers and photon torpedoes seem to do the trick in most cases, though.
That would make sense to me. Pack a photon torpedo casing with a warhead and you're all set for some good old fashioned explosive action. Too bad we never saw an episode where they explicitly did this, meaning a direct reference to reconfigure a photon torpedo shell to carry a thermonuclear device.
__________________
Remembering Ensign Mallory.
Gary7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.