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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 6 2013, 01:00 AM   #91
trevanian
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

SonicRanger wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ, can you please apply your image analysis methods to this...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Spacedock.jpg

... and tell us how big it is according to your reckoning?
Don't know how relevant it is, but there was a scale drawing in CINEFANTASTIQUE that indicated spacedock was something like 2.9 miles high. Or maybe 2.1? Anybody have the issue in question, I think it is the one covering TWOK-TVH.
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Old May 6 2013, 01:13 AM   #92
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Funny, it looks consistent to me. It's consistent in all the diagrams and pictures I've posted. But your idea of "inconsistent" appears to mean "bigger than the old Enterprise" and nothing else...
It looks like a 2x scale increase from the old Enterprise, with a lot of cover-your-ass rationale about why the structures are different from the ones before (e.g. hatches aren't for people, windows aren't for people, etc...).

If they wanted to sell diagrams and manuals, they would without trouble.
But they haven't, and it's been 4 years. I call bullshit. You're wrong. Face it.
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Old May 6 2013, 01:17 AM   #93
throwback
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Three miles in height. (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Spacedock_%28Earth%29)
15,840 meters in height.
4,828.03 meters in height.

Vengeance is approximately a mile in length.
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Old May 6 2013, 01:19 AM   #94
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Timo wrote: View Post
Just as an aside, "the people who made it say it's so" shouldn't count as an argument one way or another.
In fact it's the argument that trumps all others.


One can totally hate it because one thinks they did a bad job. That's fair. If one rejects it and tries to substitute something else, however, one is deluded.
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Old May 6 2013, 01:27 AM   #95
trevanian
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

Timo wrote: View Post
Just as an aside, "the people who made it say it's so" shouldn't count as an argument one way or another.
For canon-based folk it shouldn't, since the makers aren't on-screen evidence.
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Old May 6 2013, 01:33 AM   #96
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
Funny, it looks consistent to me. It's consistent in all the diagrams and pictures I've posted. But your idea of "inconsistent" appears to mean "bigger than the old Enterprise" and nothing else...
It looks like a 2x scale increase from the old Enterprise, with a lot of cover-your-ass rationale about why the structures are different from the ones before (e.g. hatches aren't for people, windows aren't for people, etc...).
So what? They made it bigger and showed it was bigger. They said it was bigger. It continues to be the bigger size in Into Darkness. Saying it's the old size is, as I said before, preaching that the Earth is 4000 years old while I've got these ancient fossils right here.
If they wanted to sell diagrams and manuals, they would without trouble.
But they haven't, and it's been 4 years. I call bullshit. You're wrong. Face it.
Tell that to Pocket Books. Ask them about those Abramsverse novels.
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Old May 6 2013, 05:16 AM   #97
WarpFactorZ
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Tell that to Pocket Books. Ask them about those Abramsverse novels.
OK, I'll ask. By the way, where are the detailed schematics of the nu-Enterprise? Did Pocket Books publish them? Please provide a link if you have one.
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Old May 6 2013, 08:47 AM   #98
SonicRanger
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ, can you please apply your image analysis methods to this...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Spacedock.jpg

... and tell us how big it is according to your reckoning?
Don't know how relevant it is, but there was a scale drawing in CINEFANTASTIQUE that indicated spacedock was something like 2.9 miles high. Or maybe 2.1? Anybody have the issue in question, I think it is the one covering TWOK-TVH.
I am aware of that. I want WarpFactorZ to apply his methods.
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Old May 6 2013, 11:38 AM   #99
WarpFactorZ
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

SonicRanger wrote: View Post
I am aware of that. I want WarpFactorZ to apply his methods.
I get it. You're trying to trap me into making an estimate of the spacedock's size based on the width of the Enterprise (because it just fits through the doors), and then you'll show me a picture of the Enterprise-D going fitting precisely through the doors as well.
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Old May 6 2013, 12:04 PM   #100
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
Tell that to Pocket Books. Ask them about those Abramsverse novels.
OK, I'll ask. By the way, where are the detailed schematics of the nu-Enterprise? Did Pocket Books publish them? Please provide a link if you have one.
In Paramount's vaults until such time as they want to release them. As I've shown through the thread, the ship size is consistent. The hanger matches the bridge which matches the windows which matches the hatches and engineering fits into the 14-deck-deep secondary hull. They're not too big as you've kept claiming. I've even posted diagrams proving it! You haven't refuted any of them, you've just tried and tried to switch tactics, complain about something else. I think you've forgotten what you were originally trying to prove - that the new Enterprise is the same size as the old one. It's safe to say you've failed completely.
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Old May 6 2013, 12:57 PM   #101
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
I am aware of that. I want WarpFactorZ to apply his methods.
I get it. You're trying to trap me into making an estimate of the spacedock's size based on the width of the Enterprise (because it just fits through the doors), and then you'll show me a picture of the Enterprise-D going fitting precisely through the doors as well.
Well, the Excelsior which looks far larger than the Enterprise fit through those same doors. Unless they beamed it outside the Spacedock.
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Old May 6 2013, 01:10 PM   #102
Timo
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

One can totally hate it because one thinks they did a bad job.
And that's the key to it all - they did a job. Only the job counts - the people who did it are meaningless. They may say things, they may write things, but those aren't part of the movie. The movie is a product that begins when the Kelvin enters the view and ends when the projector goes silent. And even out of that, the actual entertaining illusion only includes the bits that aren't credits, subtitles or commercials (the one Nokia marketing bit notwithstanding).

These mighty makers do a job, and then they leave, get promoted, drink themselves to death, or change their minds. Happily, none of that changes the job they already did. Only future jobs may change the previous job with their additional pseudo-facts, in the super-serialized format of Star Trek (and then only if one wants to believe in such serialization rather than, say, think of Shatner's Kirk as independent of Pine's).

Really, this whole thread is about laughing out of the court the people who insist on something being X just because they say so.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old May 6 2013, 01:58 PM   #103
SonicRanger
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
I am aware of that. I want WarpFactorZ to apply his methods.
I get it. You're trying to trap me into making an estimate of the spacedock's size based on the width of the Enterprise (because it just fits through the doors), and then you'll show me a picture of the Enterprise-D going fitting precisely through the doors as well.
No, I want to see how your window-and-pixel method works out.
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Old May 6 2013, 02:33 PM   #104
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

WarpFactorZ wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
I am aware of that. I want WarpFactorZ to apply his methods.
I get it. You're trying to trap me into making an estimate of the spacedock's size based on the width of the Enterprise (because it just fits through the doors), and then you'll show me a picture of the Enterprise-D going fitting precisely through the doors as well.
IOW, he wants to "trap" you into putting your money where your mouth is by offering some evidence for your assertions.
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Old May 6 2013, 02:34 PM   #105
137th Gebirg
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Re: Starship Size Argument™ thread

trevanian wrote: View Post
SonicRanger wrote: View Post
WarpFactorZ, can you please apply your image analysis methods to this...

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__..._Spacedock.jpg

... and tell us how big it is according to your reckoning?
Don't know how relevant it is, but there was a scale drawing in CINEFANTASTIQUE that indicated spacedock was something like 2.9 miles high. Or maybe 2.1? Anybody have the issue in question, I think it is the one covering TWOK-TVH.
Hell, FASA made it sound like SpaceDock was as large as the Indian sub-continent, and they were supposed to have been tied-in with official studio sources at the time. I think it was an article in their "Stardate" magazine, although I can't remember which one. It had a pretty nice side view w/ different colors representing the different sections of the station.
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