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 The Trek BBS Starship Phasers

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 May 3 2013, 11:10 PM #1 James Wright Commodore     Location: Church Hill, Tennessee Starship Phasers Having the number of ship mounted phasers that it has, how many targets can the refit Enterprise engage in battle? Also, apply this question to the K't'inga. James __________________ Starship Captain
May 3 2013, 11:17 PM   #2
CorporalCaptain

Location: "Who are you?"
Re: Starship Phasers

 James Wright wrote: Having the number of ship mounted phasers that it has, how many targets can the refit Enterprise engage in battle? Also, apply this question to the K't'inga. James
What to you mean by "engage"?

Do you mean "fire on simultaneously"? Do you mean "have 50% or greater odds of surviving in combat against", in which case, what kind of targets are we talking about? Or, what?
__________________
“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP” — Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015)

CorporalCaptain

 May 3 2013, 11:40 PM #3 James Wright Commodore     Location: Church Hill, Tennessee Re: Starship Phasers Example, 4 K't'inga class battlecruisers engage the Enterprise in a battle simltaneously, can the Enterprise cope or would it need help? James __________________ Starship Captain
May 4 2013, 03:56 AM   #4
blssdwlf
Commodore

Re: Starship Phasers

 James Wright wrote: Having the number of ship mounted phasers that it has, how many targets can the refit Enterprise engage in battle? Also, apply this question to the K't'inga.
I think the Enterprise (refit) could engage potentially 18 targets simultaneously or basically one for each phaser emitter or 9 targets if they fired as pairs. Depending on the bearing of the target(s) it would limit the number of available emitters that can fire.

With that being said, it also depends on how much power they need to put into the phaser attack. In TOS they could put all their power (all four phaser energy banks) into one pair of phasers firing. (Note that they did this while not under attack. So they didn't have to divert some energy for shields.) So they could fire all banks through one pair, or split their power among multiple banks. If all 18 emitters fired, they would be at a much weaker output.

The K'tinga would also have similar issues and that is probably why they fire two disruptors in TOS so the movie versions would likely be similar.

Also, remember that the available power to attack depends on how much power is being used for defense and maneuver. If the Enterprise came under sustained attack from 4 K'tingas it may not have enough power to mount a full power phaser attack since it's shields would be sucking up most of the power. She would have to run and buy time and distance to let her shields rest so power can be diverted back to phasers. If she stayed to fight more than likely she would run out of power for weapons and engines and eventually her shields would go and she would be destroyed, IMHO.

Last edited by blssdwlf; May 4 2013 at 04:42 AM.

 May 4 2013, 06:04 AM #5 Albertese Commodore     Location: Portland, OR Re: Starship Phasers In the bridge simulator at the start of Star Trek II pitched a refit against three K-Tinga's and the whole point of the mission was that the ship was doomed. So I'm gonna say 3:1 is pretty poor odds... --Alex __________________ Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
 May 4 2013, 06:33 AM #6 Saturn0660 Rear Admiral     Location: NE Ohio Re: Starship Phasers All of them?? __________________ How many lights do YOU see?
May 4 2013, 07:31 AM   #7
CorporalCaptain

Location: "Who are you?"
Re: Starship Phasers

 Albertese wrote: In the bridge simulator at the start of Star Trek II pitched a refit against three K-Tinga's and the whole point of the mission was that the ship was doomed. So I'm gonna say 3:1 is pretty poor odds... --Alex
Good point.

Sheet 6, of 14, of the Star Trek: The Motion Picture Blueprints says that the Enterprise (upgrade) class promises to even the odds for one Federation starship versus three "Drell-4" (K't'inga) Klingon heavy battle cruisers.

I see three main possibilities:
1. The hope that the odds for 3:1 would be even was optimistic.

2. The Klingons didn't stand still when the Connie refits started rolling out. If the odds for 3:1 really were even when the upgrades first came out, then only relatively minor upgrades on individual K't'inga's would have tipped the balance back in their favor, especially when patrolling in packs of three or more.

3. The Kobayashi Maru scenario invariably depicted the worst-case performance for the Federation starship.
Any, some, or all of these could be true.
__________________
“A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP” — Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015)

CorporalCaptain

 May 4 2013, 05:37 PM #9 CorporalCaptain Admiral     Location: "Who are you?" Re: Starship Phasers Not involving the refit, I know, but another 3:1 situation, besides the Kobayashi Maru scenario, was in The Enterprise Incident (original effects), when the Enterprise was surrounded by three Klingon-type Romulan ships. Everyone seemed to accept that the Enterprise would go down fighting, and that she would have, were it not for the stolen cloaking device. On the other hand, in The Deadly Years, it took perhaps ten Romulan Birds of Prey to really threaten the Enterprise, but they got out-Kirked. No doubt, the Klingon ships were better than the Romulan ships. __________________ “A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP” — Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015) CorporalCaptain
 May 4 2013, 07:11 PM #10 James Wright Commodore     Location: Church Hill, Tennessee Re: Starship Phasers Which is better covered by their ship mounted weapons along the centerline lenthwise both dorsal and ventral the Enterprise or the K't'inga? James __________________ Starship Captain
 May 4 2013, 07:25 PM #11 Timo Admiral Re: Starship Phasers The canon weapons layout of the Klingon ship is unknown: the weapons fire from TNG "The Emissary" doesn't quite match Probert's ideas... http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...ary_hd_344.jpg I would imagine, though, that the Klingons would give their ships good coverage for forward angles. Possible gaps in rear angles, as in the BoP models, and reflecting Klingon ideas on fighting, but not serious ones. And the narrowness of the neck and the small dimensions of the bow section would give extra coverage for any weapons mounted in the wings or nacelles, whereas the Federation saucer obscures any emitters on the opposite side of the saucer surface quite completely. Timo Saloniemi
May 5 2013, 10:34 PM   #12
James Wright
Commodore

Location: Church Hill, Tennessee
Re: Starship Phasers

 Timo wrote: The canon weapons layout of the Klingon ship is unknown: the weapons fire from TNG "The Emissary" doesn't quite match Probert's ideas... http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x...ary_hd_344.jpg I would imagine, though, that the Klingons would give their ships good coverage for forward angles. Possible gaps in rear angles, as in the BoP models, and reflecting Klingon ideas on fighting, but not serious ones. And the narrowness of the neck and the small dimensions of the bow section would give extra coverage for any weapons mounted in the wings or nacelles, whereas the Federation saucer obscures any emitters on the opposite side of the saucer surface quite completely. Timo Saloniemi
I'm going by the Klingon ship in TMP blueprints which has 8 disrupter mounts, I'm assuming that since Andrew Probert designed both ships for TMP he drew the blueprints for both ships?

James
__________________
Starship Captain

 May 6 2013, 03:57 AM #13 CorporalCaptain Admiral     Location: "Who are you?" Re: Starship Phasers I don't see any reason to assume that the armament on the T'Ong is the same as the armament on the three Klingon cruisers seen in TMP. The T'Ong was sent on its mission in 2290, but TMP takes place in the 2270's. Plenty of time for upgrades. __________________ “A life is like a garden. Perfect moments can be had, but not preserved, except in memory. LLAP” — Leonard Nimoy (1931-2015) CorporalCaptain
 May 6 2013, 04:26 AM #14 Albertese Commodore     Location: Portland, OR Re: Starship Phasers And I'm personally of the opinion that Klingon ships are managed by individual houses rather than a central KDF, and, therefore, individual ships equipment varies widely... --Alex __________________ Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com
 May 6 2013, 12:18 PM #15 Timo Admiral Re: Starship Phasers The external signs of weapons emplacements on a battle cruiser are basically nonexistent, save for the torpedo tubes. Sure, the phaser pimples on Federation ships are tiny, too - but the Klingon vessels don't even have a specific design for a weapon. The "turrets" at the stem of the hull boom look more like the Phalanx CIWS guns of current USN warships, in placement and design both. Naturally, all incarnations of the physical model from TMP on feature them, but they are never seen firing, so we might just as well assume they are secondary, defensive weapons that have no offensive uses. The similar "gun" greeblies at the bottom of the bow flarings are never seen firing, either, and could be further CIWS emplacements. The four emitters put together would give good CIWS coverage for the forward hemisphere; further greeblies next to the aft top structures ("intercoolers"?) may take care of aft threats, even if they aren't identical to the other four turrets. Heftier greeblies are to be found at the bottoms of the forward corners of the wing structure. These don't match either the TNG mid-wing disruptors or the TOS nacelle-tip ones, though. Perhaps the main guns of these ships are less standardized than the secondary ones, due to being more important in combat and in giving the edge to a particular House against another? It is difficult to accept that the placement of "main" weapons would be more easily altered than that of "secondary" ones, though: how small are these heavy disruptor banks supposed to be? Invisibly small? Timo Saloniemi

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