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Old May 3 2013, 12:15 PM   #46
Haggis and tatties
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I love my BR TOS remastered collection, i love the fact i can watch the remastered of go for the original stuff when feeling nostalgic.

Although i have to admit the remastered simply adds a cherry to the top of the big cake of joy that is the original series in high def.
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Old May 3 2013, 04:24 PM   #47
horatio83
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I am not much of a TOS fan but the show hasn't aged badly. I think it is a general feature of the time period, many 60s / early 70s movies are very watchable today.
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Old May 3 2013, 06:05 PM   #48
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
Nostalgia can play a part at times. To a certain extent our tastes in music/film etc... are defined during our youth. People complain about modern music/films/TV shows etc.. not being as good as it was when they were younger. But of course it would be true to say "No matter the era there is some good and some dire stuff".

Star Trek has withstood the test of time. Is it because of production values, FX, acting etc.. Perhaps that has played a part, but I would say it has stood the test of time because of the stories it told. The best FX in the world can not compensate for the lack of a good story, a good story however can compensate for lacklustre FX.
Exceedingly well put.
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Old May 3 2013, 06:13 PM   #49
xvicente
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

bbailey861 wrote: View Post
MacLeod wrote: View Post
Nostalgia can play a part at times. To a certain extent our tastes in music/film etc... are defined during our youth. People complain about modern music/films/TV shows etc.. not being as good as it was when they were younger. But of course it would be true to say "No matter the era there is some good and some dire stuff".

Star Trek has withstood the test of time. Is it because of production values, FX, acting etc.. Perhaps that has played a part, but I would say it has stood the test of time because of the stories it told. The best FX in the world can not compensate for the lack of a good story, a good story however can compensate for lacklustre FX.
Exceedingly well put.
see First Contact for an example.
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Old May 3 2013, 10:04 PM   #50
Jonas Grumby
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Is TOS "aging badly"? Well, since it's the only Trek series I still rewatch episodes of, I'd have to say no.
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Old May 3 2013, 11:39 PM   #51
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

The thing about William Shatner is that he has the monopoly on being William Shatner, and he can get work for the rest of his life, doing nothing but playing William Shatner.

I've seen a lot of Trek actors become character actors who appear as guest stars or recurring characters on network dramas.

Who else could get people to buy music albums they expect to be bad, solely on the virtue of having been performed by William Shatner?
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Old May 4 2013, 12:46 AM   #52
marksound
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
The thing about William Shatner is that he has the monopoly on being William Shatner, and he can get work for the rest of his life, doing nothing but playing William Shatner.

I've seen a lot of Trek actors become character actors who appear as guest stars or recurring characters on network dramas.

Who else could get people to buy music albums they expect to be bad, solely on the virtue of having been performed by William Shatner?
I think it was casting Shatner as the captain in the 2nd pilot that sold Trek as a viable property. No real evidence, just my gut.

He has that smirk and twinkle in the eye that pulls people in. No other Trek actor was as successful before, and none since. Not even Nimoy. Heck, he was cast as the lead in a series at 70+ years old. Twice. Not to mention the multi-decade ad campaign for Priceline.

Who does that? Shatner, that's who.
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Old May 5 2013, 07:04 PM   #53
Ancient Mariner
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

TOS, like TNG, DS9, and every other show ever made is, simply, aging. None of them were perfect when they were on air. Why anyone expects them to be anything other than imperfect now, particularly after watching various Trek episodes and movies for decades, makes no sense to me. They are all products of their time, and yet they all have episodes that continue to resonate for audiences today.

As to the specific criticism of TOS pacing, there's one tangible reason why modern audiences may pick up on it: Because there was less commercial time during the airing of TOS, the individual episodes are longer. Five minutes or so may not seem like much, but modern audiences are conditioned for shorter run times.
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Old May 5 2013, 07:23 PM   #54
J.T.B.
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Samuel Walters wrote: View Post
As to the specific criticism of TOS pacing, there's one tangible reason why modern audiences may pick up on it: Because there was less commercial time during the airing of TOS, the individual episodes are longer. Five minutes or so may not seem like much, but modern audiences are conditioned for shorter run times.
Good point. On Mad Men a couple of weeks ago there was a line about six minutes of commercials per hour. Wow. Now it's like eight minutes per half hour. You can get a lot into a couple of extra minutes. Maybe why TOS has more play-like, dialogue-heavy scenes. Which I like, but is obviously not for everyone.
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Old May 5 2013, 07:26 PM   #55
Gojira
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I just went through the entire series of TOS, the remastered version and i still enjoy it and think it is holding up real well.
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Old May 6 2013, 03:00 AM   #56
GameOn
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Even as a kid in the 80's I though TOS was pretty dated. I've come to appreciate it as I've got older and there are certainly some great episodes but I still have that feeling.
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Old May 6 2013, 03:55 AM   #57
Gojira
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

GameOn wrote: View Post
Even as a kid in the 80's I though TOS was pretty dated. I've come to appreciate it as I've got older and there are certainly some great episodes but I still have that feeling.

I think a distinction needs to be made between aged and dating. TOS has aged and it looks like a series filmed in the 60s. But I don't think it looks dated. Then again I grew up in the 60s and 70s.

However, I feel the first 2 seasons of TNG look dated but the rest of the series still looks fine.
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Old May 6 2013, 05:04 AM   #58
GameOn
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Gojira wrote: View Post
I think a distinction needs to be made between aged and dating. TOS has aged and it looks like a series filmed in the 60s. But I don't think it looks dated. Then again I grew up in the 60s and 70s.

However, I feel the first 2 seasons of TNG look dated but the rest of the series still looks fine.
I can look past cheap sets and effect and things that were products of their times like fashions and hair styles. Most of my problems with TOS come from the acting and writing. Poor acting or over acting combined with poor dialogue could often make things unintentionally silly. I usually find Shatner to be the most off putting especially when he's trying to be the big leading man of the series. I always found the difference between Kirk in TOS and the movies to be pretty striking, either Shatner became a much better actor or he decided to play the character with more maturity. Other things that bothered me were clumsy looking action scenes and overly dramatic music and sound cues. I'd actually like to see modern editors and sound mixers take a pass at TOS because I think most of these are things that could be fixed.

The first 2 seasons of TNG were pretty dated even back when they were new because the writing was poor. Sure the costumes, lighting and direction all got better but the biggest change was the writing. Season 1 and 2 were trying too hard to be TOS which just didn't work with its large ensemble cast of undeveloped characters.
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Old May 6 2013, 05:41 AM   #59
Gojira
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

GameOn wrote: View Post
Gojira wrote: View Post
I think a distinction needs to be made between aged and dating. TOS has aged and it looks like a series filmed in the 60s. But I don't think it looks dated. Then again I grew up in the 60s and 70s.

However, I feel the first 2 seasons of TNG look dated but the rest of the series still looks fine.
I can look past cheap sets and effect and things that were products of their times like fashions and hair styles. Most of my problems with TOS come from the acting and writing. Poor acting or over acting combined with poor dialogue could often make things unintentionally silly. I usually find Shatner to be the most off putting especially when he's trying to be the big leading man of the series. I always found the difference between Kirk in TOS and the movies to be pretty striking, either Shatner became a much better actor or he decided to play the character with more maturity. Other things that bothered me were clumsy looking action scenes and overly dramatic music and sound cues. I'd actually like to see modern editors and sound mixers take a pass at TOS because I think most of these are things that could be fixed.

The first 2 seasons of TNG were pretty dated even back when they were new because the writing was poor. Sure the costumes, lighting and direction all got better but the biggest change was the writing. Season 1 and 2 were trying too hard to be TOS which just didn't work with its large ensemble cast of undeveloped characters.
The acting in TOS was very melodramatic a type of acting that has gone out of style. I think there are some good episodes that will last with TOS and some that are very dated. Since I grew up with them they are guilty pleasures.

I mean you won't see episodes like "Plato's Stepchildren" "Spock's Brain" or "The Gamesters of Triskelion" made into a feature film. They are a bit silly.
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Old May 6 2013, 06:09 AM   #60
GameOn
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Gojira wrote: View Post
The acting in TOS was very melodramatic a type of acting that has gone out of style. I think there are some good episodes that will last with TOS and some that are very dated. Since I grew up with them they are guilty pleasures.

I mean you won't see episodes like "Plato's Stepchildren" "Spock's Brain" or "The Gamesters of Triskelion" made into a feature film. They are a bit silly.
Those are episodes I've usually find entertaining because they're so silly you can't take them seriously. Also the ones that use things that have now become sci-fi clichés like defeating computers with a logical paradox and defeating enemies by seducing them or teaching them about love. Even in the best episodes though there are often moments that just make be laugh out loud with unintentional silliness.
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