RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,172
Posts: 5,344,936
Members: 24,601
Currently online: 527
Newest member: Capt_n_Admiral

TrekToday headlines

Klingon Beer Arrives In The US
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Star Trek: Prelude To Axanar
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Abrams Announces Star Wars: Force For Change Sweepstakes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Retro Review: In the Pale Moonlight
By: Michelle on Jul 19

Trek Beach Towel
By: T'Bonz on Jul 18

Two New Starships Collection Releases
By: T'Bonz on Jul 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Lounges & General Chat > Miscellaneous

Miscellaneous Discussion of non-Trek topics.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 5 2013, 01:16 AM   #91
Avon
Fleet Captain
 
Avon's Avatar
 
Location: Space Wales
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

so how does a 5 year old use a drunk driver to kill his sister?
__________________

Hello to Jason Isaacs!
Avon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 01:40 AM   #92
Gaith
Rear Admiral
 
Gaith's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, DC
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

^ With a large flatscreen television he instructed his dog to throw on her while swimming with said animal in a lake shortly after little league practice and a home-cooked pasta lunch, obviously.
Gaith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 01:46 AM   #93
Kenbushway
Captain
 
Kenbushway's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

Candlelight wrote: View Post
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/america...r-with-his-gun

A five-year-old US boy accidentally shot his two-year-old sister to death with a rifle he had received as a gift last year, authorities say.
The children's mother was home on Tuesday (local time) but had stepped onto the porch for "no more than three minutes", Cumberland County Coroner Gary White told WKYT-TV.
White told the Lexington Herald-Leader newspaper the boy received the .22-calibre rifle, especially made for children, as a gift. He said the rifle was kept in a corner, and the family didn't realize a bullet was left inside it.
White said the shooting was an accident. He did not return a telephone call from The Associated Press.
State police said the shooting occurred when the boy was "playing" with the rifle. It is not clear whether any charges will be filed, said Kentucky State Police spokesman Trooper Billy Gregory.
White identified the gun as a Crickett, referring to a company that specifically makes guns, clothes and books for children. "It's a little rifle for a kid. ... The little boy's used to shooting the little gun."
Keystone Sporting Arms produced 60,000 Crickett and Chipmunk rifles in 2008, according to its website. It also makes guns for adults.
The company's slogan is "my first rifle", and its website has a "Kids Corner" section with photos of children at shooting ranges and on bird and deer hunts.
The 'specifically makes guns for children' part is the most disturbing piece of news print I've read all year.
I know you'd rather there not be any guns in children's possession but frankly that isn't going to happen. One could go into the argument about how millions of other kids have received one of these or like and haven't used it in-correctly; but I will simply say you have only really 2 choices. Either kids are given real guns that they could hurt-kill themselves with or you have guns made for children which are safer on average. I know that its not much a choice and you find it disturbing but what is another POSSIBLE solution?
__________________
"The typical investor would be better off if his stocks had no market quotations at all, for he would be spared the mental anguish caused him by other persons' mistakes of judgement."
Benjamin Graham - The Intelligent Investor Chpt 8.
Kenbushway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 01:47 AM   #94
Kenbushway
Captain
 
Kenbushway's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Right, the purpose of weapons is recreation.
So is childish action figures but its okay for adults to use them still.
__________________
"The typical investor would be better off if his stocks had no market quotations at all, for he would be spared the mental anguish caused him by other persons' mistakes of judgement."
Benjamin Graham - The Intelligent Investor Chpt 8.
Kenbushway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 01:52 AM   #95
Kenbushway
Captain
 
Kenbushway's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

JarodRussell
BUT the main difference is: cars are tools for transportation. Guns are tools for killing. Nothing else. Of course you can use a car as a weapon as well, but you can't use a gun in any other useful way than to threaten and to kill other beings. And there's no single valid reason why a civilian needs such a tool.
I can easily think of a few but one comes to mind the most: hunting. Not everyone wants to buy from stores whether it be high prices, things put in the food, and diseases. (how many times have reports come out just in these last few months of food contamination and recalls) Just because you can't think of a use for a certain tool doesn't mean its useless. An ax maybe useless to you because you can simply turn the natural gas on and heat your home; doesn't mean someone else doesn't need it.
__________________
"The typical investor would be better off if his stocks had no market quotations at all, for he would be spared the mental anguish caused him by other persons' mistakes of judgement."
Benjamin Graham - The Intelligent Investor Chpt 8.
Kenbushway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 01:59 AM   #96
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

gturner wrote: View Post
1001001 wrote: View Post
I guess I don't have anything new to add, other than to say:

Giving a 5 year old access to a loaded gun is the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard.
What about putting a 5-year old in a car with a drunk driver? That happens all the time, killing over 200 children below the age of 14 every year.
You're right. They're analogous situations. Thankfully, we condemn both.

Then the kids go out to the playground instead of rabbit hunting, and every year 200,000 of them end up going from the playground to the ER at a cost of $1.2 billion a year, and one dies from such playground injuries every few weeks.
I'm sure if the same number of kids who went to the playground instead got loaded firearms, the numbers would be quite bad for that too. All you're pointing out here is that parents who do stupid things like these parents did are thankfully not commonplace.

I skipped the rest because they could be responded to with that paragraph.
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 03:11 AM   #97
gturner
Admiral
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

^ Hunting tends to be done vewy quietly and you have to move slowly, so there's little risk of injury, other than frostbite or pneumonia from sitting in a duck blind all day.

Most kids used to hunt. There wasn't much else to do and it put food on the table. It involves walking around outside in a careful manner instead of seeing how high you can go on a swing set, spinning the merry-go-round until other kids start getting flung off, or trying to ride your bicycle off the roof. It's especially safer than letting kids ride ATVS, which are still killing about 100 kids a year, or bicycles, which result in about 200 child deaths a year (the vast majority male).

If you focus on injuries, hunting might as well not exist. The National Safety Council says it is among the safest recreational activities there is, with only 10 injuries per 100,000 participants. In contrast, children on bicycles sustain about a quarter million injuries requiring emergency room treatment per year, and cycling is the sport that is the leading cause of traumatic brain injury in children 5 through 9, and skates, skateboards, and scooters cause about two-thirds as many injuries as bicycles.
gturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 03:52 AM   #98
Alidar Jarok
Everything in moderation but moderation
 
Alidar Jarok's Avatar
 
Location: Norfolk, VA
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

What does this case have to do with hunting?
__________________
When on Romulus, Do as the Romulans
Alidar Jarok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 04:02 AM   #99
farmkid
Commodore
 
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Right, the purpose of weapons is recreation.
I've shot thousands of rounds, every single one of them for recreation. Many in my family and my wife's family have shot much more than I have, almost all for recreation. There are a few who hunt, and perhaps 0.1% of the rounds they shoot is for hunting, but the rest are all recreation.

Every single person I know who has a gun has it for either recreation, self/home defense, or both, mostly for recreation. So yeah, recreation is their primary purpose. That's not to say they can't be used for other things, but that is their primary purpose now. It wasn't always so, but it is now.
__________________
Computers are like the God of the Old Testament: lots of rules and no mercy.
farmkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 04:19 AM   #100
farmkid
Commodore
 
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
farmkid wrote: View Post
iguana_tonante wrote: View Post
Yep, that's right.

A 5-year old kid shoots his sister because his gun nuts parents gave him a fucking functional rifle as a birthday present, and the problem is parents who don't have guns.

Right.
That's not what I said; please don't put words in my mouth. If you bothered to read my first post it the thread you would find that I put the blame solely at the feet of the parents in this situation.
This is what you wrote:

farmkid wrote: View Post
I don't have to cower in fear over the possibility they find a gun at a friend's house or somewhere else and end up killing someone. I only have to worry that their friends might not have the same skills and training if their friends' parents are scared of guns.
So, by your own words, the main problem is not that there are 9 guns every 10 people in the US (including toddlers), or that it is considered somehow normal to give 5-year old kids a functional rifle. The problem is parents who don't own gun (or, as you so deftly put it "are scared of guns" and "cower in fears" of weapons) because they won't train their kids like they are some kind of baby militia. And again, this is the only proper answer to that.
Um, no, you still aren't understanding what I said so I'll spell it out for you. If my kid finds a gun somewhere, I don't have to worry that they'll pick it up and accidentally shoot someone. They know how to handle it safely. More importantly, because they've shot guns before, it's not some magic talisman to them and they're much more likely to obey my instructions to leave it alone and find an adult than pick it up to explore. I'm more worried that one of their friends who come from a household where guns are scary evil things will pick it up because they're more curious about it having no experience with it. If they do pick it up, the chance of an accident is much higher than if my kid does so because the other kid has no idea how to handle it safely. I hope that's clear enough for you, because if not I'm not sure I can make it much clearer.

As you can see, this statement has absolutely no direct bearing on the story that started the thread. Taking what I said and twisting it to say that I'm blaming this accident on other parents is either disingenuous or just stupid.

For the record, and since you missed it, here's what I said earlier about this particular case:
farmkid wrote: View Post
The problem here isn't the existence of such a gun; the problem is giving a 5-year old their own gun. Even more of a problem is the fact that the gun was sitting in the corner with a bullet in it. There are two major problems right there and that's what these parents should be brought up on charges for. If a parent buys a gun for their kid, it is absolutely incumbent upon them to store the gun properly and never have it anywhere the kid can get access to it without adult supervision and the kid absolutely must be taught and be able to demonstrate proper safety practices before the gun is ever loaded.
__________________
Computers are like the God of the Old Testament: lots of rules and no mercy.
farmkid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 09:13 AM   #101
Oerdin
Ensign
 
Location: Where the surf meets the turf.
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

Guns for children? That's just a parent being stupid about their personal fetish beyond all reason. "Here's a loaded gun, kid. Go out and play!"
Oerdin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 03:33 PM   #102
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

Kenbushway wrote: View Post
JarodRussell
BUT the main difference is: cars are tools for transportation. Guns are tools for killing. Nothing else. Of course you can use a car as a weapon as well, but you can't use a gun in any other useful way than to threaten and to kill other beings. And there's no single valid reason why a civilian needs such a tool.
I can easily think of a few but one comes to mind the most: hunting. Not everyone wants to buy from stores whether it be high prices, things put in the food, and diseases. (how many times have reports come out just in these last few months of food contamination and recalls) Just because you can't think of a use for a certain tool doesn't mean its useless. An ax maybe useless to you because you can simply turn the natural gas on and heat your home; doesn't mean someone else doesn't need it.
So unless you're a licensed hunter, what's the need for a firearm?
__________________
lol
l
/\
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 06:53 PM   #103
Kenbushway
Captain
 
Kenbushway's Avatar
 
Location: Georgia, USA
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
Kenbushway wrote: View Post
JarodRussell
BUT the main difference is: cars are tools for transportation. Guns are tools for killing. Nothing else. Of course you can use a car as a weapon as well, but you can't use a gun in any other useful way than to threaten and to kill other beings. And there's no single valid reason why a civilian needs such a tool.
I can easily think of a few but one comes to mind the most: hunting. Not everyone wants to buy from stores whether it be high prices, things put in the food, and diseases. (how many times have reports come out just in these last few months of food contamination and recalls) Just because you can't think of a use for a certain tool doesn't mean its useless. An ax maybe useless to you because you can simply turn the natural gas on and heat your home; doesn't mean someone else doesn't need it.
So unless you're a licensed hunter, what's the need for a firearm?
Again its not for you to decide what is useful or useless to others. Everyone has something they use for recreation. Like I said society doesn't understand why grown adults still play with toys, but that doesn't mean its wrong. Someone shooting at clay targets as a competition isn't wrong.
__________________
"The typical investor would be better off if his stocks had no market quotations at all, for he would be spared the mental anguish caused him by other persons' mistakes of judgement."
Benjamin Graham - The Intelligent Investor Chpt 8.
Kenbushway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 08:40 PM   #104
gturner
Admiral
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

JarodRussell wrote: View Post
So unless you're a licensed hunter, what's the need for a firearm?
What's the need for:
A television.
A sports car.
Two sports cars.
A motorcycle.
More than three pairs of shoes.
A lawn.
Cheap sunglasses.
A second bathroom.

Unlike those, a gun can defend your life or put food on the table.
gturner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 5 2013, 09:32 PM   #105
Timelord Victorious
TARDIS Janitor
 
Timelord Victorious's Avatar
 
Location: Germany, Earth, the Solar System
Re: 5 year old given rifle as gift, kills 2 year old sister

How many gun owners actually do something productive with guns?

Also I think there is a difference between a sports rifle (as seen at the Olympics and similar sport events) and what you most likely find in gun households....
Timelord Victorious is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.