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Old May 4 2013, 02:04 AM   #5821
Aldo
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
^ Why do you persist in calling "Man of Steel" a Nolan film? It really isn't. This is Snyder's film 100 percent. I don't know if you keep calling it a Nolan film because that supports your viewpoint on the film or not, but you're factually incorrect. Your dislike of Nolan is not giving Snyder the credit he deserves. Nolan did script polishes, and hired Snyder, but he hasn't been hands on the film since he started to concentrate on "The Dark Knight Rises".

Your continued lack of acknowledging the actual director of the film baffles me. Yes obviously with the people involved in the film Nolan's influence will be felt, but to continually ignore Snyder, or to consider him some kind of "puppet director" is wrong and incorrect.

The Dark Knight:
Story By: David S. Goyer, Christopher Nolan
Producers: Christopher Nolan, Emma Thomas, Charles Roven

Man of Steel:
Story By: David S. Goyer, Christopher Nolan
Producers: Christopher Nolan, Emma Thomas, Charles Roven, Deborah Snyder

Snyder's influence can't beat out the fact that its still written and produced by the same people as TDK and Rises (minus Snyder's wife, but she's not much of a factor). Snyder has had ok stuff, I guess (the watchman movie was mediocre, but it still made the story actually watchable, unlike the unreadable comic) but everyone else is Nolan's people. They've worked with him on atleast 2-3 movies, and they do things his way. There is absolutely no way this isn't Nolan's movie. A director is important, but I'm pretty sure the writers and producers combined have more influence in a movie than the director by himself. Plus, who's to say snyder isn't a huge fan of Nolan's? Maybe he likes Nolan's horrible style too, meaning this movie would have no one in charge who wasn't Nolan or a minion.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
^ Not just not like the film, but I'm pretty sure he's stated he has no intention of seeing the film. I could be wrong with the latter, if so I apologize to the poster, but I am pretty sure that I recall him posting that in the past.

I'll see it on DVD when the library gets it, but thats it. I can't see any movies anyway, not even the good ones like Iron Man, but I wouldn't waste money on it if I could. As for why I post about it, its a superhero movie. I'm a superhero fan, so its something I consider worth posting about. Its a big event when it comes to superhero stuff, its hard to stay silent on it. I try to, since I know how I get when I have to deal with Nolan stuff, but sometimes it just comes out. Its grating to see him basically be declared the second coming with DC movies.

I just want to see some good DC superhero movies, done by people who think brooding, moronic, whiney characters aren't what superheroes should be. Nolan's idea of a superhero is a crybaby with laryngitis who doesn't actually want to be a hero and who has to be as realistic as possible. That means beards, angst, and generally being a moron, apparently. To be fair, the only other Nolan movie I've seen besides his batman stuff, The Prestige, has almost all of that as well (except the realistic part), but it atleast had a few twists and wasn't out to ruin a famous character.

So, while I think the movie will be terrible, it definately counts as something I take an interest in, being superhero related. I'm honestly not wanting to create a big argument, I just felt like posting my opinion.
Do you enjoy perpetuating a stereotype?
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Old May 4 2013, 02:11 AM   #5822
Gojira
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
I'm not even sure how to respond to what you just typed...
Don't bother....
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Old May 4 2013, 03:20 AM   #5823
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

This thread=Out of Control
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Old May 4 2013, 03:57 AM   #5824
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
That makes no sense.
It might not make sense to you, but it makes sense to everyone else.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
So, either Pa Kent is saying Clark should let children drown, or the people editing the trailers think thats what the movie should show.
>sigh<
Let's try again...

this "editing" is done in such a way for trailers and or previews for t.v. shows to generate interest or misdirect. For example, in the new Star Trek trailer, there's two shots of the Enterprise burning in orbit followed by a shot of a different ship crashing in the water. The intent is to make the viewer think that it's the Enterprise that is crashing thus generating excitement or interest.
Got it? You don't know what the conversation will be based on 7 seconds of out of context dialogue.

Are you really going to assert that misdirection in a trailer is due to the trailer makers thinking THAT'S how the movie should be?

[keanu]....whoa....[/keanu]

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Either way, it is not helping the movie, and its really stupid.
It's "not helping the movie"? The one that hasn't been released yet and so an accurate gauge of how it's helping or hurting can't yet be made?

In fact, this is one of the most talked about scenes in the first trailer and interest has been generated to see if Pa Kent is really saying that and if he is, what could make him say that.

See how it works? Either way, people will be buying tickets to find out. Just like people will be buying to tickets to see what makes the "Enterprise" crash into the water. Oh, it's not the Enterprise. Psych!

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Without those cartoons or "funny books" you wouldn't be watching this crappy movie, just so you know.
You don't say.

I mean it's not like the character I use as my avatar isn't a character that was created by Gardner Fox and Jack Burnley for DC Comics in 1941. I think I can safely say that I've thrown more comics away from my personal collection than you've read.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
He's going to be a dark, brooding hero
Brooding doesn't equal "dark". Neither does "Introspective". Otherwise Spider-Man would be a "dark" hero because when I was reading Spider-Man his luck was shit and he was ALWAYS reflecting on that while somehow dredging up enough will to continue slogging on doing the right thing. Quite frankly it was depressing.

And no one considered or considers him "dark". They consider Wolverine and the Punisher "dark".

At best Clark looks more introspective and contemplative in his formative years.....which is all that's really been shown of him in the trailers. So we'll have to wait and see how he is once he starts his Superman / Daily Planet career.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
If I hate everything someone does, down to their very way of doing things, then its not overreacting to say I'll hate the next thing they're doing.
You've actually said that you hate this movie. Not "there's a pretty good chance I'll hate this movie" but "I hate this movie".

Let me give you an example of why you cannot claim this without seeing the movie. We'll flip "hate" to "love" here....

I love Wes Anderson movies. I own them all. He's got a new movie coming out called "The Grand Budapest Hotel".

Can I say "I love "The Grand Budapest Hotel" without having actually seen it?

No.

Can I say that based on my love of Wes Anderson's previous movies that there's a probability that I will also enjoy this movie?

Yes.

Is it possible that Wes Anderson will make a movie I'll dislike?

Yes.

Will I know that one way or the other without having seen it?

No.

The same applies for "hating" a movie.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Micahel Bay is crazy successful. He also has few defenders among people who aren't 13 year old boys
To be honest I don't think you're much older than 13. Not an insult or anything, you just come off like an average teenager. Probably because you use "stupid" and "idiotic" in the same exact way most teenagers do, i.e. too much and in WTF? ways.

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Popularity/success doesn't always equal good. I know I keep going with Bay, but his similarities to Nolan and others is weird.
Nolan's movies are both successful and well regarded by both critics and audiences as more intelligent than most of the crap out there. So your comparison is off. It's like if I pointed out that Rush is a talented, successful band and well respected by their peers and you bringing up Justin Beiber to say that "popularity / success doesn't equal good".

They're not the same type of music makers, nor are Nolan and Bay the same type of movie makers.

Both Rush and Nolan are skilled at their craft and excel in it. Just because you don't enjoy their music / films doesn't mean they lack skill and talent. They have more than enough of both.

Once again....you not liking something or someone does not make them bad.

Carcazoid wrote: View Post
It's exhausting to read all the reviews of a movie written by people who have only seen a few trailers and tv ads.
Set Harth wrote: View Post
How can someone review a movie they haven't seen?
Exactly.


Captain Craig wrote: View Post
This thread=Out of Control
Calm down Cap'n. I've seen threads go out of control, this ain't it. As soon as some new pix or info comes out we'll all be talking about how crazy awesome it is. Well, almost all of us.
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Old May 4 2013, 07:05 PM   #5825
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

I don't want to derail the thread anymore, but I had to respond. I get what you're saying about not being able to say you'll hate a movie before it comes out, but what I'm saying is that there is no chance I will ever like a Nolan movie. He doesn't have the ability to make a movie I will not despise. Its not a possibility. I know what kind of movies I like, and Nolan doesn't make them. He can't make them. He makes one type of movie, and its bad. I still think superman is going to be brooding constantly because thats Nolan's trademark, and probably the only way he knows how to have a protagonist act. There has not been one frame in all of the Superman trailers and clips that hasn't shown that its just another Nolan movie with a hero who broods all the time. I realise that a lot of people like that, but it didn't work for his Batman, and Superman should be just about the exact opposite of how Bale acted in the horrible Nolan movies. He doesn't brood, or as you said act "intospective". Thats not Superman. What happened to the alien hero who shows the best that people can be, without being a brooding idiot? In the end, Nolan didn't want to make a Superman movie. He wanted to make another Nolan brand deeply flawed and whiny superhero movie, and Superman just happened to be who he got to work with. The fact that he makes the giant spider Superman movie concept look amazing in comparison to his c$%p doesn't matter to him, he'll just pull in the money and move on to ruining something else. Best case scenario, he decides to do more "original" stuff and leaves superheroes alone. Maybe then we'll get a superhero movie worthy of not immediately being burned and forgotten.
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Old May 4 2013, 07:39 PM   #5826
Set Harth
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote:
He makes one type of movie
I don't think you're familiar with his body of work.
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Old May 4 2013, 07:41 PM   #5827
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Ok, I'll give you that, the only non superhero movie of his I've seen is The Prestige. I guess I'll amend the comment to be

He makes one type of superhero movie (although, if the Prestige is any indication, alot of his problems aren't just for his superhero stuff
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Old May 4 2013, 07:42 PM   #5828
Aldo
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Set Harth wrote: View Post
kirk55555 wrote:
He makes one type of movie
I don't think you're familiar with his body of work.
Of course he isn't. The only other Nolan movie he's seen outside of the Dark Knight Trilogy is The Prestige.
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Old May 4 2013, 07:47 PM   #5829
kirk55555
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

Well, according to wikipedia, his "body of work", only counting movies that are out, is the batman trilogy, The Prestige, Following, Memento, Insomnia, and Inception. So, I've seen 4 of his 8 movies that are out. I seriously doubt any of those 4 movies would make me hate Nolan less.
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Old May 4 2013, 08:15 PM   #5830
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
He makes one type of superhero movie
Kind of a weird statement. Sure, he's made 3 superhero movies, but they were all a part of the exact same trilogy with the exact same superhero. Of course they're all going to be similar.

We really don't know yet what he is able to do with other superheroes.

I admit, though, that Nolan does seem to have a certain style, and The Prestige is easily one of my least favorite movies ever. So far for me, Nolan has been hit or miss.
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Old May 4 2013, 09:56 PM   #5831
Gojira
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
I don't want to derail the thread anymore, but I had to respond. I get what you're saying about not being able to say you'll hate a movie before it comes out, but what I'm saying is that there is no chance I will ever like a Nolan movie. He doesn't have the ability to make a movie I will not despise. Its not a possibility. I know what kind of movies I like, and Nolan doesn't make them. He can't make them. He makes one type of movie, and its bad. I still think superman is going to be brooding constantly because thats Nolan's trademark, and probably the only way he knows how to have a protagonist act. There has not been one frame in all of the Superman trailers and clips that hasn't shown that its just another Nolan movie with a hero who broods all the time. I realise that a lot of people like that, but it didn't work for his Batman, and Superman should be just about the exact opposite of how Bale acted in the horrible Nolan movies. He doesn't brood, or as you said act "intospective". Thats not Superman. What happened to the alien hero who shows the best that people can be, without being a brooding idiot? In the end, Nolan didn't want to make a Superman movie. He wanted to make another Nolan brand deeply flawed and whiny superhero movie, and Superman just happened to be who he got to work with. The fact that he makes the giant spider Superman movie concept look amazing in comparison to his c$%p doesn't matter to him, he'll just pull in the money and move on to ruining something else. Best case scenario, he decides to do more "original" stuff and leaves superheroes alone. Maybe then we'll get a superhero movie worthy of not immediately being burned and forgotten.
Nolan did not direct this movie!! Snyder did. From all accounts this is not a deeply flawed and whiny superhero movie. We are getting a heroic Superman more than you currently think.
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Old May 4 2013, 11:21 PM   #5832
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

This is an honest question.

Why do people think the director has more influence than the producers and writers combined?

I mean, Snyder I don't really have an opinion on, but I'm pretty sure that one guy, as important as the director is, can't beat out all of the producers and writers for who is the biggest influence on the movie (thats assuming he doesn't go along with Nolan's style, which he probably does because he probably wouldn't be the director is he didn't go along with Nolan). Even if he had a vision for the movie that was kuch different than Nolan's brooding whiner Superman, he's up against a whole bunch of people who are basically Nolan's minions, so regardless of the director, this is a Nolan movie.
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Old May 4 2013, 11:31 PM   #5833
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
This is an honest question.

Why do people think the director has more influence than the producers and writers combined?

I mean, Snyder I don't really have an opinion on, but I'm pretty sure that one guy, as important as the director is, can't beat out all of the producers and writers for who is the biggest influence on the movie (thats assuming he doesn't go along with Nolan's style, which he probably does because he probably wouldn't be the director is he didn't go along with Nolan). Even if he had a vision for the movie that was kuch different than Nolan's brooding whiner Superman, he's up against a whole bunch of people who are basically Nolan's minions, so regardless of the director, this is a Nolan movie.
Directors have a lot more say than you are given them credit for. Why give directors Academy Awards if they are nothing more than the producer's "yes men?"

The truth is your mind is as closed as a 10,000 pound steel door. You hate Nolan with a such a passion nothing made on this earth can pry that concrete fortified mind open that will allow you to see the movie objectively.

You will see this movie with an attitude of confirmation bias and then come back after you rent it from the library and tell us how right you were and how awful it is.

So why bother to discuss it?
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Old May 4 2013, 11:54 PM   #5834
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

kirk55555 wrote: View Post
Well, according to wikipedia, his "body of work", only counting movies that are out, is the batman trilogy, The Prestige, Following, Memento, Insomnia, and Inception. So, I've seen 4 of his 8 movies that are out. I seriously doubt any of those 4 movies would make me hate Nolan less.
Am I reading this correctly that you haven't seen Memento or Inception?
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Old May 4 2013, 11:56 PM   #5835
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Re: Superman (casting, rumors, pix till release)

It really depends. Some directors are hired to execute the producer's vision, some directors are given freedom, some directors even get final cut. In the "huge budget" film genre, producers tend to control directors a lot stronger.
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