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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
A+ 144 19.25%
A 161 21.52%
A- 101 13.50%
B+ 83 11.10%
B 58 7.75%
B- 27 3.61%
C+ 40 5.35%
C 38 5.08%
C- 25 3.34%
D+ 11 1.47%
D 13 1.74%
D- 10 1.34%
F 37 4.95%
Voters: 748. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 4 2013, 08:16 AM   #1036
HaventGotALife
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Art Vandelay wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
[...] Funnily enough, when the next incarnation of Trek comes along, people tend to find the second-to-last one more tolerable. You don't see as much hatred for ST:TMP or "Enterprise" these days.
Thing is, I liked every incarnation of Trek up until Trek 09. Some more (TNG, ENT, DS9), some less (VOY). (Although I tend to try and forget Nemesis exists.) There is no series/film that I used to denigrate and then grew softer towards as new things came along. Indeed, my deep affection for ST:TMP was love at first sight.

The thing with Trek pre-2008 is that it didn't need to be wall-to-wall action. It didn't have to be marketed as the next Dark Knight. 90% of the promotional artwork for Into Darkness had me going: "This is supposed to be Trek? Why are the characters armed to the teeth with huge ego-shooter guns?" I guess that's a sign of the times.

When in the past they did bad science (Genesis or Threshold), Braga at least had the decency to hang his head in shame. Nowadays, we have Spock proclaiming that supernovas can destroy whole galaxies. We have transporters that only require a quick firmware update to achieve limitless range. And no idea of what rank means, either. Kirk is insubordinate, commandeers the ship, gets to be captain on a technicality? Bah - he destroyed that evil Romulan, so let's have this heroic Cadet skip the ranks of Ensign, Lieutenant j.g., Lieutenant, Lieutenant Commander and Commander altogether and make him Captain. And while we're at it, let's not give him some science vessel, let him have the flagship of the Federation. That's not Trek, that's "Marvel's Kirk & Spock".

When you get a sandbox like the Trekverse to play in, stick to the rules. Bend them if you must, us fans are willing to look the other way in case of minor or mid-sized infractions. It's this careless, indifferent "anything goes, who gives a f**k" attitude the writers seem to have that drives me up the wall and makes me yearn for the Trek "of old".

I guess I wouldn't be so bitter if we had a "proper" TV series doing what Trek is best at (character-heavy plays), and the action films were special events. Now all we have is this monster movie franchise, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Wrong thread, I suppose. But boy did it feel good to vent. I miss Star Trek so very much.
I have given up this fight, but I agree with what you are saying, if I don't necessarily agree with the tone (ranting). The fact is that Star Trek has 5 series and 10 movies that do the things you wish. Not every episode was a sit-down-and-talk-out-a-problem story arc. JJ Trek has helped me to romanticize the Trek that came before it. The bar is low and I am amazed that what I learned in my sociology, philosophy, logic, theater, psychology, literature, anthropology, chemistry, and biology classes ended up in a television show. It's college level, an introduction to college-level material for the novice. Star Trek has improved with my education as well.

I wasn't always in agreement with you. I think of DS9 as the show about oppression, a 177-hour arc about an issue that has faced every civilization, the othering of different people. When I was 15 and not paying attention in school, I liked the war. I liked the perseverance. I never thought about a theme or had any semblance of how to write a story (although I did want to be a writer). That as a writer, you start with trying to communicate an idea.

Now, this version of Trek seems to have defenders, calling old Trek heavy-handed, self-aware of its importance, and other excuses for the dumbing down of America. Everyone has critics.

I agree with you--part of being an artist is taking risks. That means you offend sometimes. That means sometimes the people in the audience don't get what you are trying to say. This isn't stupid Star Trek, it's safe Star Trek. And people pointing out that we need to bend to the will of what is marketable and financially viable, are saying "keep it safe. We don't want Star Trek to die."

I would rather have one really good series with one really good movie, one that is timeless, than 35 movies and 10 television series. Less is not more, but more is not more, either. Why should I spend my hard-earned money and my time and energy on something that isn't worthy of my education and time? It keeps me away from the movie theater and Trek is about to go the way of the that cynicism as well.

This isn't Trek for me. It's for the 15-year-old fan I once was. When Star Trek, or anything, stops making me think, that's when it is no longer viable in my mind. Sacrifices will be made...friendships will be tested..., these things already let me know that it was an appeal to emotion, not to my intellect.

So I will see it because I am curious. I will see it because of sentimentality. But I will not see it again and again or talk about it ad nauseum on this board or in any other venue. It simply isn't interesting enough.

Feel free to rip away. It won't change how I feel.
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Old May 4 2013, 08:23 AM   #1037
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

gornsky wrote: View Post
Perhaps the intention of the posters is noble, they presume they are defending the rights of black actors. But it's all just racism to me.
Exactly. I mentioned before that George Takei would get jibes in the 70s and 80s that he should only ever audition for "Asian roles", and that few Hollywood films and Broadway plays were written with Asian actors in mind.

Heaven help him now that he's come out, because now he needs to only audition for mature-age gay Asian roles?

They had STiD written and wanted a strong charismatic antagonist. The best actor auditioned - and won it, even though he didn't physically resemble two previous actors who'd been sought for the role.
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Old May 4 2013, 08:42 AM   #1038
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

gornsky wrote: View Post
In many forums, it seems more like a racism debate. It's not PC to complain about a "black" actor taking a role that may traditionally have been filled by "white" actors, but there is a fierce anger about casting a "white" actor (man, I hate this discussion) in a role that was traditionally held by someone of colour (and I don't include Spanish RM here).
I do recall some bitching about Idris Elba in Thor.

The most common response to the complainers was not to denounce the complaint as politically incorrect, but rather as idiotic given the universe in which these movies take place. You can accept a magic hammer, but not a Norse god who looks African?

The same observation applies here. Khan has MAGIC BLOOD and we're nitpicking skin color?
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Old May 4 2013, 09:17 AM   #1039
StarTrek1701
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Captrek wrote: View Post
The same observation applies here. Khan has MAGIC BLOOD and we're nitpicking skin color?
In this ST universe where:

- thick red nailpolish can seemingly create blackholes

- anti-matter bombs can reverse the gravity of blackholes

- people can be beamed light years away to a starship moving faster than light

- time travel

-..we're gonna nitpick magic blood?
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Old May 4 2013, 10:06 AM   #1040
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Captrek wrote: View Post
The same observation applies here. Khan has MAGIC BLOOD and we're nitpicking skin color?
Weeeellll...

Honestly? The (and I'm not going to call it "magic" blood because it makes us seem like apes banging away at the monolith) healing blood didn't bother me that much.

With respect, Star Trek has alway incorporated futuristic devices and solutions, introduced primarily to move the plot along (warp speed, transporter etc.). They don't spend a lot of time explaining them in any real detail, and most fans didn't belabour the issue. It was science fiction. We moved on (or we produced technical manuals.

Those who didn't accept this stuff at face value went out into the world to examine whether these things could really be possible. Anecdotally, many of them became scientists or doctors or aerospace engineers. That's the beauty of Trek. It introduces something because it is cool and convenient and that places a flag in the ground for others to reach for.

We already use blood and blood products to improve health and performance. We already know that hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) from adult hosts can be released into the circulatory system to regenerate organs. We understand that cell death is suspended until long after the blood has stopped pumping. We have many examples of people who have died in cold conditions yet been revived. Canon established that Khan's genetic engineering gave him regenerative and healing abilities well beyond even that of normal men. How far fetched is it, really, that 300 years in the future we could know much more about harvesting HSCs and injecting them into a deceased, irradiated host that had been cooled after death, to effect cell repair?

Is any of this explained in the movie? Well, no. It does land as a bit of a WTF moment. But the more you think about it, the more you realise that it's just another in a long line of fantastic conveniences that Star Trek imagines and later generations make a reality.
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Old May 4 2013, 10:32 AM   #1041
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

So it's another TWOK... Well I reckon we should see how STID holds up against it's clone brothers Nemesis and 2009. Good thing Harrison and Shinzon are on a friends.











LMAO posting because of their goober faces.

Last edited by AllStarEntprise; May 4 2013 at 10:50 AM.
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Old May 4 2013, 11:43 AM   #1042
Therin of Andor
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

gornsky wrote: View Post
We already use blood and blood products to improve health and performance. We already know that hematopoietic stem cells (HSCs) from adult hosts can be released into the circulatory system to regenerate organs. We understand that cell death is suspended until long after the blood has stopped pumping.
Beat me to it! A decade(?) ago, when the media first started reporting that human stem cells were being harvested from afterbirths, for use in saving other humans' lives - and then that politicians were getting worried about the repercussions, and passing laws - it sounded very science fictiony "magic"!
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Old May 4 2013, 11:53 AM   #1043
JarodRussell
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

StarTrek1701 wrote: View Post
Captrek wrote: View Post
The same observation applies here. Khan has MAGIC BLOOD and we're nitpicking skin color?
In this ST universe where:

- thick red nailpolish can seemingly create blackholes

- anti-matter bombs can reverse the gravity of blackholes

- people can be beamed light years away to a starship moving faster than light

- time travel

-..we're gonna nitpick magic blood?
I would have accepted a Khan has magic blood story in the prime universe as well. He is genetically engineered after all.

Del Toro or Bardem, or actually an Indian like Shah Rukh Khan, those would have been good choices for KHAN.

Cumberbatch is great, and his John Harrison seemed to be a pretty cool new villain, but he's definitely no Khan.
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Old May 4 2013, 11:57 AM   #1044
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Now, this version of Trek seems to have defenders, calling old Trek heavy-handed, self-aware of its importance, and other excuses for the dumbing down of America. Everyone has critics.
Being a fan (and defender) of both is not mutually exclusive.
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Old May 4 2013, 12:42 PM   #1045
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Perhaps Harrison added nanites to his own circulatory system after being revived? He's had years of working for Section 31.
Years?

I thought they picked them up after hearing about the Botany Bay from Spock Prime (though I could have that part wrong)? If so, they would have had a year at most...
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Old May 4 2013, 12:49 PM   #1046
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

BillJ wrote: View Post
I thought they picked them up after hearing about the Botany Bay from Spock Prime (though I could have that part wrong)? If so, they would have had a year at most...
No, I think Section 31 did its own research into the whereabouts of the Botany Bay. I don't recall Spock Prime being identified as the source of the leak about the existence of Khan.

In this timeline, Harrison could have been around in the 23rd century almost as long as Kirk!
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Old May 4 2013, 02:03 PM   #1047
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Odd that Section 31 was so thorough in one time, and so completely inept in the other.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:11 PM   #1048
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Perhaps Section 31 is much bigger/better with more support in this timeline due to the whole Narada incident and the Earth almost destroyed etc.

Magic blood with regenerative properties is perhaps a scientific possibility? Has anyone looked it up? I guess I will have a look
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Old May 4 2013, 02:13 PM   #1049
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

http://www.springer.com/life+science...-1-61779-470-4

Ok 30seconds of googling yielded that result which you have to pay for but it appears to discuss the regeneration of organs with blood and stem cells to repair organs that have failed. So \\//
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Old May 4 2013, 02:29 PM   #1050
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Re: STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Ryan8bit wrote: View Post
Odd that Section 31 was so thorough in one time, and so completely inept in the other.
How do we know that they're inept?
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