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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old May 4 2013, 02:27 AM   #91
BillJ
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
All of the stories about how "disappointed" Roddenberry was with making changes to the show were after the fact.
This.

I imagine Roddenberry was delighted that NBC didn't flush Trek after The Cage.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:29 AM   #92
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

BillJ wrote: View Post
horatio83 wrote: View Post
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You may actually want to read up on what Roddenberry did to Justman and Courage and Fontana and Gerrold before calling it a "low-shot".
Life is finite, time is limited. I have better things to do than read hagiographies or condemnations of Roddenberry.
Well, here's an FYI...

He wouldn't allow Justman, Gerrold and Fontana to have co-creator credit on TNG even though they deserved the credit. It would have upset the "Holy Order of the Rod".

He wrote "lyrics" to the TOS end music so Alexander Courage would have to share any royalties that were made with Roddenberry.

Just for starters...

Roddenberry wasn't a very nice human being.
Cool story. Still waiting for the theft part though.

First, saying that somebody deserved to get credit has nothing to do with money. Second, putting lyrics to the music can have many motives. But even if we assume that it was purely done by Roddenberry in order to get part of the future income it wasn't theft. It was a trick or an exploitation of Courage but certainly not theft.

There is a difference between being a dick and being a thief.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:29 AM   #93
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

Pretty much.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:31 AM   #94
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
"Where No Man Has Gone Before" is a better television story than "The Cage," so it's not remarkable that the network was happier with the second pilot.

All of the stories about how "disappointed" Roddenberry was with making changes to the show were after the fact.
This, right here.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:32 AM   #95
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

horatio83 wrote: View Post

There is a difference between being a dick and being a thief.
When you angle yourself to take money/credit for other people's work, that's theft where I come from.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:42 AM   #96
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

Theft is a criminal act. What you describe is exploitation and, guess what, it happens everywhere. I am sure there are many pieces of clothing in your and my wardrobe which are made in East Asia in sweat shops. So we are, in your eyes, thieves.

Anyway, I don't care whom Roddenberry fucked or exploited. He set the benchmark for what Trek should be with his first pilot and it is no coincidence that the first season, with its echoes from The Cage like Kirk having his Hamletesque moment of doubt in Balance of Terror, is the best. Ever since its birth Trek has always been good when it was about ideas, not just adventures and action.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:45 AM   #97
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Theft is a criminal act. What you describe is exploitation and, guess what, it happens everywhere. I am sure there are many pieces of clothing in your and my wardrobe which are made in East Asia in sweat shops. So we are, in your eyes, thieves.
You can keep trying to shift the argument away from the fact that he was a thief, a liar and an adulterer but it doesn't change who Gene Roddenberry was.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:50 AM   #98
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

Looks like you are the liar as the supposed actions of Mr.Roddenberry are not theft.
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Old May 4 2013, 02:52 AM   #99
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Your idea of theft has nothing to do with what theft actually is. Now who is the liar?
You'll just have to do your own investigative work. Maybe you'll appreciate facts more if you have to work for them...
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Old May 4 2013, 02:57 AM   #100
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

I like how this Horatio guy injects politics or racism or a third world exploitation element into just about every argument. It's very entertaining. It's what keeps me coming back day after day.
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Old May 4 2013, 03:01 AM   #101
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

BillJ wrote: View Post
horatio83 wrote: View Post
Your idea of theft has nothing to do with what theft actually is. Now who is the liar?
You'll just have to do your own investigative work. Maybe you'll appreciate facts more if you have to work for them...
Yeah, hard work, more Puritan lessons.
Investigative work into the dark secrets of Roddenberry's life? I am impressed, that must be your life achievement.

Perhaps you had better spent that time learning what theft actually is before you wrongly accuse a dead mean of it. Such behaviour is quite disgusting. Where I come from adultery might not be a big thing ... but libel and pissing on a grave actually are.
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Old May 4 2013, 03:02 AM   #102
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

Roddenberry was a capable TV producer but a poor human being. It happens. But any discussions about Roddenberry and his "vision" will inevitably bring up the less than upstanding way he treated those around him.
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Old May 4 2013, 03:21 AM   #103
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

horatio83 wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
horatio83 wrote: View Post
Your idea of theft has nothing to do with what theft actually is. Now who is the liar?
You'll just have to do your own investigative work. Maybe you'll appreciate facts more if you have to work for them...
Yeah, hard work, more Puritan lessons.
Investigative work into the dark secrets of Roddenberry's life? I am impressed, that must be your life achievement.

Perhaps you had better spent that time learning what theft actually is before you wrongly accuse a dead mean of it. Such behaviour is quite disgusting. Where I come from adultery might not be a big thing ... but libel and pissing on a grave actually are.
He's using "theft" in an informal sense. Roddenberry liked to take credit for things he really shouldn't have. I doubt he'd be arrest for that, but "theft" seems to be a fair way to express it. While expecting GR to be faithful to his wife might be "Puritan", expecting him not to exploit his employees and coworkers isn't. Up the workers and all that.
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Old May 4 2013, 03:46 AM   #104
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

As the entire talk about Roddenberry not being a saint is for most fans just a complicated way to say that they don't like his vision I prefer the short version: "I don't like all this unrealistic utopian stuff." It is more to the point.
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Old May 4 2013, 03:48 AM   #105
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Re: The Roddenberry Reputation

trevanian wrote: View Post
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Lastly, one of the main issues NBC had with the pilot WAS the cost (over 1 million dollars); and they were indeed concerned that Desilu couldn't/wouldn't be able to produce weekly episodes on a smaller budget; so one of the things the second pilot was - was a 'proof' to NBC that they could produce a workable/watchable and entertaining episode on what would amount to their smaller weekly budget.
Agree w/ most all of the rest of your post, but I think the million figure is even a little high counting BOTH pilots, with CAGE at something like $630,000 and WHERE NO somewhere over 300 grand.
To be exact, "The Cage" cost $615,781.56.00.

"Where No Man Has Gone Before" cost $354,974.00.

The decrease in cost can probably be credited to the second pilot being shorter (50 min. vs. 78 min.), start-up costs not incurred by the second pilot (sets, costumes, props, research/development, etc.), and the crew having the experience of the first pilot under their belt.
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