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General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

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Old May 3 2013, 01:12 AM   #31
Melakon
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

R. Star wrote: View Post
Shatner and Nimoy never seemed more than average actors to me. Certainly the characters they played were iconic, but their acting careers beyond Star Trek weren't that great in my opinion.
To be fair, there are hundreds or perhaps thousands of actors who had trouble maintaining their careers after getting a lead role in a series.

Dick Van Dyke, Bob Denver, and David McCallum are just a few from that period that come to mind.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:17 AM   #32
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

^ I sometimes wonder if people's memories of TOS are colored more by the movies than the television series itself.

I love The Original Series, but I find I have to watch it with an active imagination. It leaves a lot of blanks for my mind to fill in - like a good book.

If you're the sort of person for whom everything needs to be displayed explicitly onscreen and every second has to be packed with hyper-stimulating audio and visuals, then TOS is probably not the right series for you.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:17 AM   #33
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Jefferies wrote: View Post
Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?
No.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:31 AM   #34
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
I love The Original Series, but I find I have to watch it with an active imagination. It leaves a lot of blanks for my mind to fill in - like a good book.

If you're the sort of person for whom everything needs to be displayed explicitly onscreen and every second has to be packed with hyper-stimulating audio and visuals, then TOS is probably not the right series for you.
^^That's a pretty good summary of how I feel about TOS.

With TOS getting a very nice HD transfer back circa 2006, the live action has never looked better. The bold colors used (especially in the first season) look great.

Another thing about the '60s is that we have '60s influences in pop culture now, Mad Men is super popular, so I actually think TOS has aged reasonably well. Conversely, the first two seasons of TNG reek of tacky '80s fashion which have not aged as well, possibly because not enough time has passed. I suppose it's possible in another 25 years, the 1987 look will be respected retro style, but it doesn't seem like it.

TOS is easy to get into and enjoy, it's usually pretty clear what's going on in each episode and each is pretty self-contained. The trio of Kirk, Spock and McCoy is also very easy to understand and enjoy, their clear respect and affection for each other comes through in most episodes.

As many others have already said, TOS also is a product of it's time, and as such if you understand the themes and general pop culture of the time, you can see exactly how TOS fits in. The cold war allegories, the western influence (Gene Roddenberry wrote many episodes of Have Gun Will Travel just before creating Star Trek), the military influence (many of the production staff had served in WWII), etc.

I grew up loving classic TV, I loved watching Get Smart, Dragnet, Lost in Space, I Love Lucy, Bewitched, etc. If Nick-at-Nite showed it in the early-'90s I probably watched it. So for me it all fits in with TOS and it just clicks. I also love TNG, but for different reasons and in different ways.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:50 AM   #35
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

There's another factor with TOS, in that if you listen to only the audio, it's often much like a radio show with pictures. The plot is revealed through dialogue, not onscreen action. Not sure where I first read that analysis, it might have been in David Gerrold's early background books.
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Old May 3 2013, 03:57 AM   #36
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

I'm another who felt it aged well, certainly better than TNG. The nature of the sets and the way it was filmed remind me more of a stage play than modern TV, but it hods together and it works as a whole.

Sometimes it seems stilted, sometimes stately, but the stories work.
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Old May 3 2013, 04:37 AM   #37
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

King Daniel wrote: View Post

IMO it's The Next Generation that's aged the worst - I couldn't make it through my last attempt at a rewatch. Awful direction (they stand around, arms at sides like mannequins, taking turns to recite lines), zero excitement and endless prentious, self-congratulatory nonsense. Bleh.
You made the same mistake I did: You started with season 1.

Start with season 3 and TNG aged wonderfully.

I think if you take the best of series TOS episodes, they aged pretty decently, though they do have some obvious 'warts'. But take TOS episodes outside the 'best of' ones, it did age pretty terribly.

But then again, what TV series from the 50s and 60s are still watchable today? There's Twilight Zone and The Prisoner. I saw a few episodes of The Fugitive and thought they were okay. Sitcoms from back then are unwatchable.
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Old May 3 2013, 04:57 AM   #38
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
But then again, what TV series from the 50s and 60s are still watchable today? There's Twilight Zone and The Prisoner. I saw a few episodes of The Fugitive and thought they were okay. Sitcoms from back then are unwatchable.
Depends which sitcoms you're talking about. My Mother the Car is pretty much universally considered one of the worst shows ever. But at least it had a nifty looking fake old car (1928 Porter, which even got a model kit) and Avery Schreiber. And The Hathaways was pretty awful, with a married couple raising 3 trained chimpanzees (the Marquis Chimps).

But there are some standouts-- I Love Lucy, The Honeymooners, The Dick Van Dyke Show, and The Many Loves of Dobie Gillis, which brought first fame to Bob Denver as Maynard G. Krebs. I first spotted John Astin, before he gained fame as Gomez Addams, from a failed series he did before that, called I'm Dickens, He's Fenster which was from one of the producers of the later Get Smart!

And then of course, there's Batman, which people could never decide whether it was a comedy or adventure show.
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Old May 3 2013, 05:04 AM   #39
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Start with season 3 and TNG aged wonderfully.
Couldn't agree more. TNG took a couple of seasons to get its space legs, but pretty much everything from season 3 onward (and a good chunk of season 2) still looks like the future to me, two and a half decades later.
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Old May 3 2013, 05:25 AM   #40
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
JirinPanthosa wrote: View Post
Start with season 3 and TNG aged wonderfully.
Couldn't agree more. TNG took a couple of seasons to get its space legs, but pretty much everything from season 3 onward (and a good chunk of season 2) still looks like the future to me, two and a half decades later.
Well the biggest problem with TNG's first two seasons to me, seemed as if they were trying to emulate TOS too much. Once they defined the the show as their own and did there own thing with it, it was better.
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Old May 3 2013, 06:54 AM   #41
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

R. Star wrote: View Post

Shatner and Nimoy never seemed more than average actors to me. Certainly the characters they played were iconic, but their acting careers beyond Star Trek weren't that great in my opinion.

Who besides Patrick Stewart and Colm Meaney have had great acting careers beyond Star Trek? Alexander Siddig has done okay... I might be forgetting one or two, but I think William Shatner is definitely in the top 5 as far as success outside of Trek. How many Trek actors have won emmy's for non trek roles? Or has enjoyed starring roles in multiple popular tv shows? Shatner has.

I think Nimoy gave a better performance as Spock than 99% of trek actors, including shatner. Of course this is a matter of opinion.
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Old May 3 2013, 07:09 AM   #42
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

And unlike some actors, who have brief success, struggle, and retire, Shatner keeps at it. I don't think he's going to quit until he stops breathing.
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Old May 3 2013, 07:22 AM   #43
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

There are plenty of Trek actors with great careers before and after Trek.

Louise Fletcher, LeVar Burton, Kate Mulgrew, René Auberjonois, Avery Brooks, Whoopi Goldberg...
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Old May 3 2013, 07:47 AM   #44
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Third Nacelle wrote: View Post
There are plenty of Trek actors with great careers before and after Trek.

Louise Fletcher, LeVar Burton, Kate Mulgrew, René Auberjonois, Avery Brooks, Whoopi Goldberg...
Certainly true.

I should have clarified I was really talking about careers of regular cast members after star trek. There have been plenty of enormously successful actors in Star Trek. But the list gets far shorter when you star talking about regulars.

Whoopi Goldberg and Louise Fletcher were recurring guest stars. Both had huge success prior to joining star trek.

Levar burton definitely had success outside of trek (mostly before), although not as much as the others I mentioned.

I wouldn't describe any of the others as having success on the same level of William Shatner or Patrick Stewart. What the hell has Kate Mulgrew or Avery Brooks done since Star Trek? A small part in a television series or movie from time to time? Some off-off broadway work? Voice overs? Getting work now and then, while very difficult and no doubt commendable for an actor or actress, is not what I would describe as wildly successful. Certainly not on the level of the aforementioned.
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Old May 3 2013, 11:00 AM   #45
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Re: Is Star Trek (the original series) aging really badly?

Watching TNG S3 on blu ray and really thought it held up well, DS9 also still looks great I thought. I've never been huge on TOS admittedly apart from the main episodes.
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