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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 29 2013, 10:48 PM   #16
R. Star
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Yeah, Krudge's "because you desire it" was about as sadist as he could get, not knowing Kirk's relationship with Spock.
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Old April 30 2013, 03:24 PM   #17
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Or simply pragmatic. Kruge still wanted Kirk to hand over the secret of Genesis (that was the only reason he beamed down in the first place), so he needed a means to blackmail him. The simplest way was to threaten Kirk's life with the very handily available dying planet, but Kirk would resist - so the second-simplest way was to threaten the life of somebody Kirk showed particular concern for.

None of this answers the original question of why the rest of the heroes didn't drag Spock with them "over there" when Kruge told them to move. But at that point, said heroes wouldn't have known that Kruge wanted them in that particular spot for beam-up. For all they knew, Kruge wanted them there for a mass execution - in which case leaving Spock behind would be doing a favor to the Vulcan.

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Old April 30 2013, 03:53 PM   #18
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Timo wrote: View Post
Or simply pragmatic. Kruge still wanted Kirk to hand over the secret of Genesis (that was the only reason he beamed down in the first place), so he needed a means to blackmail him. The simplest way was to threaten Kirk's life with the very handily available dying planet, but Kirk would resist - so the second-simplest way was to threaten the life of somebody Kirk showed particular concern for.

None of this answers the original question of why the rest of the heroes didn't drag Spock with them "over there" when Kruge told them to move. But at that point, said heroes wouldn't have known that Kruge wanted them in that particular spot for beam-up. For all they knew, Kruge wanted them there for a mass execution - in which case leaving Spock behind would be doing a favor to the Vulcan.

Timo Saloniemi

I like this explanation, in the craziness of the moment, scotty, sulu, etc. didn't think they were going to be beamed away. either shot or they knew they had to play along and possibly try to jump Kruge while he was gloating or interrogating Kirk. either way they knew the safest place for Spock was on the ground, I think if they had known they were going to be beamed up, they would have grabbed Spock. I'm surprised that Matlz? wasn't overpowered Immediately after they beamed up. Sulu could have Flipped him easy...
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Old May 1 2013, 05:42 PM   #19
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Kruge told Maltz he was beaming up prisoners. There's plenty of time to Maltz to hit the beam up switch and draw his gun before the others solidify. 5 against 1 doesn't count for much when the 1 is pointing a gun at your head and he's fine with blowing it off.
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Old May 2 2013, 10:08 AM   #20
Timo
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Nevertheless, the Maltz end of things features some oddities. When Kirk beams up, he does so by calling Maltz - but he ends up materializing in a transporter room that is either uncrewed, or crewed by somebody else whom Kirk overpowers or kills off screen. Kirk then walks to the bridge, dragging Spock, and finds Maltz and the prisoners there.

Clearly, Maltz didn't beam up the prisoners to the transporter room on "remote", by pressing a button at the bridge, and then politely ask them over the PA system to walk to the bridge where he was waiting. He must have beamed up the prisoners to the location where he himself was waiting with a drawn disruptor. So, what's going on? Why would he "remotely" beam prisoners to the bridge but his own commander (in reality Kirk and Spock) to the empty transporter room?

I guess we have to assume Maltz beamed up the prisoners to the transporter room by using a console in the transporter room, then walked them at gunpoint to the bridge where he would prepare the ship for departure in case the planet blew up - and then remotely recovered his commander (that is, Kirk and Spock) because he could trust him (although not them!) with arrival at an unoccupied transporter room.

The other technically possible situation, the one where Klingons already know how to do direct site-to-site and Maltz beamed up the prisoners directly to the bridge, makes zero sense, as he would then have beamed Kruge from the planet directly to his command chair as well.

But why have the prisoners on the bridge at all? Wouldn't the ship have a lockable room or three for the purpose of holding captives? Were all locks aboard the ship rendered unreliable by Kirk's earlier bombardment? Or did Maltz think the planet would blow up so soon that he had no time for a round of locking-up?

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Old May 2 2013, 12:39 PM   #21
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Because Maltz is by himself and he couldn't turn his back long enough to lock up the prisoners and command the ship at the same time? Sulu could've flipped him! He has no backup, that's my theory.
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Old May 2 2013, 12:43 PM   #22
Timo
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Marching the bunch to a holding cell sounds simpler to me (and probably involves less back-turning) than keeping them all at gunpoint on a bridge where no matter where they stand, they have access to dangerous equipment...

And if Maltz can spare the time to go to the transporter room to beam up the captives, he isn't too busy to command the ship.

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Old May 2 2013, 04:33 PM   #23
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Deck 1 - Bridge wrote: View Post
I saw a clip from TSFS this morning and something occured to me that I thought I'd share, I'm sure others have noticed it too.

Kruge beams down to Genesis and, at gunpoint, tells everyone except Kirk to move away from the immediate area. Why did the others leave Spock at that point? Kruge was clear, 'everyone except Kirk' was to move away for beam-out. Why go all that way, with all that danger, to leave the person they came for when there was nothing forbidding them moving him?

Arrggghhh!!! Plot devices!!!!!
Because they all knew once Kirk beamed down, Kruge will inevitably be on the receiving end of repeated Shatner kicks to the face.

What is there to be worried about?
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Old May 2 2013, 07:39 PM   #24
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

The plot of TSFS only works if you permit everyone except the Trek regulars (by extension including Sarek) to be absolutely stupid - everyone from the captain of the freighter ("What's going on? When do I get paid?") to Kruge ("We are Klingons!").

Last edited by Admiral Buzzkill; May 2 2013 at 08:56 PM.
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Old May 2 2013, 10:56 PM   #25
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
The plot of TSFS only works if you permit everyone except the Trek regulars (by extension including Sarek) to be absolutely stupid - everyone from the captain of the freighter ("What's going on? When do I get paid?") to Kruge ("We are Klingons!").
Don't forget Captain "Stand by for evasive!" Esteban.
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Old May 2 2013, 11:07 PM   #26
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

publiusr wrote: View Post
I think Kruge was being a sadist. He knew of Kirk and Spock's close friendship, and wanted to make sure they died--he wanted Kirk to see Spock die a second time--that was my take.
Heh? I don't even particularly think of Kruge as being a bad guy.
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Old May 3 2013, 12:17 AM   #27
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
I think Kruge was being a sadist. He knew of Kirk and Spock's close friendship, and wanted to make sure they died--he wanted Kirk to see Spock die a second time--that was my take.
Heh? I don't even particularly think of Kruge as being a bad guy.
Uh, he executed one of his own people because he displeased him. He executed David just to "show his sincerity" and he was attempting to gain a planet destroying weapon. That's all text book bad guy behavior.
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Old May 3 2013, 12:19 AM   #28
Dale Sams
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

R. Star wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post
publiusr wrote: View Post
I think Kruge was being a sadist. He knew of Kirk and Spock's close friendship, and wanted to make sure they died--he wanted Kirk to see Spock die a second time--that was my take.
Heh? I don't even particularly think of Kruge as being a bad guy.
Uh, he executed one of his own people because he displeased him. He executed David just to "show his sincerity" and he was attempting to gain a planet destroying weapon. That's all text book bad guy behavior.
By human standards.
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Old May 3 2013, 01:02 AM   #29
R. Star
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Dale Sams wrote: View Post
R. Star wrote: View Post
Dale Sams wrote: View Post

Heh? I don't even particularly think of Kruge as being a bad guy.
Uh, he executed one of his own people because he displeased him. He executed David just to "show his sincerity" and he was attempting to gain a planet destroying weapon. That's all text book bad guy behavior.
By human standards.
Given we're all humans discussing a science fiction movie, did you have a different set of standards to offer?
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Old May 3 2013, 02:52 PM   #30
anh165
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Re: Kruge, and Genesis

Kruge: "No tricks Kirk"

Kirk: "No tricks" (Yeah right)
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