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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 2 2013, 05:18 PM   #16
F. King Daniel
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

DarthTom wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
According to the writers, the timeline split in 2233, and so everything prior to that (First Contact, Enterprise) happened and is unchanged.
How could that be because Enterprise E caused the initial visit to earth?
It still does. But it travels back from (and returns to) the Prime branch of the post-2233 future, not the alternate one.
Forgive the awful quality of this pic, but this is SciFiNow magazine's diagram:


Here's the official one:

Picard and co. just came down (and returned to) a different branch of the timeline to the one JJ-Trek inhabits. The hows and whys of timelines splitting and merging are detailed in the novel Department of Temporal Investigations: Watching the Clock. It actually makes sense, tying every Trek time travel into one seemingly-consistent system.
Wouldn't Temporal Investigations in the 29th century want to protect the new timeline?
They're either unaware of the new reality or don't care.
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Old May 2 2013, 05:22 PM   #17
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

^^^

Thanks for the graphic. Makes more sense now. So Picard and crew still visited the past, the Borg still showed up etc. in their own universe which still impacted the alternative universe up until 2233.

Question then: In Trek IV when they time travelled back to Frisco that also created a new universe, correct? In an alternate reality the earth's ocean's presuambly get vaprozied?
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Old May 2 2013, 05:23 PM   #18
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

King Daniel wrote: View Post
They're either unaware of the new reality or don't care.
No - because then there would be two separate and distinct Temporal enforement groups and I think they'd both be aware of each other's existence?
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Old May 2 2013, 05:25 PM   #19
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

Kruezerman wrote: View Post
A proper Trek horror movie. I'm thinking really fucked up looking drones here.
I would love to see what JJ does with the Borg. I think it could be really great!
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Old May 2 2013, 05:36 PM   #20
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

Depending on how XI ends, it might be the next "logical" step...
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Old May 2 2013, 05:40 PM   #21
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

I'm all for seeing the JJBorg in the next one, but I want them without a Queen-type leader.
But I don't think that would happen.
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Old May 2 2013, 05:40 PM   #22
F. King Daniel
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

DarthTom wrote: View Post
^^^

Thanks for the graphic. Makes more sense now. So Picard and crew still visited the past, the Borg still showed up etc. in their own universe which still impacted the alternative universe up until 2233.

Question then: In Trek IV when they time travelled back to Frisco that also created a new universe, correct? In an alternate reality the earth's ocean's presuambly get vaprozied?
Not according to DTI: Watching the Clock. It says that if it's a strictly one-way time travel like the black holes in STXI, an alternate history branches off. But if it's a two-way time travel method, then the new reality created remains entangled with the old and overwrites it.

That said, the novels aren't canon and are prone to being contradicted. But that explanation does jibe quite well with just about every prior episode and movie we've seen, as well as the comments from the new movie's writers.
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Old May 2 2013, 05:54 PM   #23
DarthTom
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Not according to DTI: Watching the Clock. It says that if it's a strictly one-way time travel like the black holes in STXI, an alternate history branches off. But if it's a two-way time travel method, then the new reality created remains entangled with the old and overwrites it.


Contradicting yourself. So does JJ's universe then stamp out the existing one or is a parallel universe created?

To make it work though - you're right. Because in order for the Federation to exist at all, the Borg have to travel back in time.
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Old May 2 2013, 06:01 PM   #24
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

There's no contradiction. The black hole was a one-way time travel, so it created a branching timeline splitting off in 2233. The two-way forms oftime travel, like the vortex in "Yesterday's Enterprise" (which could be flown back and forth through), caused the prime-timeline to be overwritten, as did use of the Guardian of Forever time portal or the slingshot maneuver.
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Old May 2 2013, 06:05 PM   #25
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Not according to DTI: Watching the Clock. It says that if it's a strictly one-way time travel like the black holes in STXI, an alternate history branches off. But if it's a two-way time travel method, then the new reality created remains entangled with the old and overwrites it.

That said, the novels aren't canon and are prone to being contradicted. But that explanation does jibe quite well with just about every prior episode and movie we've seen, as well as the comments from the new movie's writers.
Even though the novels are not canon they do help me explain the events of Trek 09. There are many different types of time travel. Some types of time travel will be contained in one time line and may not effect that timeline or it could possible overwrite the timeline. We see this in the majority of Trek movies/shows. This type of time travel is contained to one singular universe and is linear. Another type of time travel will create and alternate or parallel universe. That is what we see in Trek 09.
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Old May 2 2013, 06:25 PM   #26
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

Or every type of time travel creates an alternate timeline, it's just that most of them are so identical to the original as to be practically indistinguishable.
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Old May 2 2013, 06:38 PM   #27
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

King Daniel wrote: View Post
There's no contradiction. The black hole was a one-way time travel, so it created a branching timeline splitting off in 2233. The two-way forms oftime travel, like the vortex in "Yesterday's Enterprise" (which could be flown back and forth through), caused the prime-timeline to be overwritten, as did use of the Guardian of Forever time portal or the slingshot maneuver.
I see. It's all 'trek-nobabble,' [TM] though right? And a convenient way to solve contunity problems.

On topic; What are the Borg up to in JJ's universe right now - any speculation? Because of all of the temporal activity in the Alpha quadrant it wouldn't peak their interest?
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Old May 2 2013, 06:41 PM   #28
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

One problem I'm having with the JJ films is they're predominantly Earth-centric. If the Borg were to show up in the third film, I fear it would simply be Borg invade Earth, which we've already seen. If they somehow work the Temporal Cold War into this, I'll scream.
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Old May 2 2013, 06:51 PM   #29
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Re: The Borg and JJ's universe

Do these universes get created, or they always existed. If it was created then the Narada's appearance created a copy of an entire universe and a copy of everyone in it.

So the NuUniverse has no past and didn't exist, therefore no appearances by future visits or anyone else.
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Old May 2 2013, 06:51 PM   #30
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DarthTom wrote: View Post
King Daniel wrote: View Post
They're either unaware of the new reality or don't care.
No - because then there would be two separate and distinct Temporal enforement groups and I think they'd both be aware of each other's existence?
Don't cross streams !!! :P

Sorry, wrong franchise...

USS Excelsior wrote: View Post
Do these universes get created, or they always existed. If it was created then the Narada's appearance created a copy of an entire universe and a copy of everyone in it.

So the NuUniverse has no past and didn't exist, therefore no appearances by future visits or anyone else.
New universe is created at this point.

Multiverse quantum physics can get extremely weird sometimes.

DonIago wrote: View Post
Or every type of time travel creates an alternate timeline, it's just that most of them are so identical to the original as to be practically indistinguishable.
This is the logical assumption.

Also, a new timeline is not created by the FORWARD travel, but by the backward travel only.

Last edited by M'Sharak; May 2 2013 at 07:09 PM.
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