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Old May 1 2013, 05:20 AM   #76
Ryva Brall
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Fortunate Son:

I have to say, I liked this episode. It put the focus on Mayweather, which was previously sorely lacking. Having spent the most time in space, you would think his experience would be put to better use, but I guess not. Anthony Montgomery is not the best Trek actor I've ever seen, but he's not the worst, either. "Underwhelming" is how I would describe him.

I didn't quite understand Archer's reasoning for getting involved in the conflict between the freighter and the Nausicaans; the Enterprise really had no authority in the matter, and the freighter crew weren't members of Starfleet. I agree that taking one of the Nausicaans prisoner wasn't the smartest thing to do, but they didn't have a whole lot of other options. And I highly doubt that giving the prisoner back really did anything to ensure that they wouldn't be attacked again; in fact, it probably guaranteed ongoing attacks in the future.

I did like the whole freighter culture, though. It kind of reminded me of the "pioneer" culture of the outlying worlds on Firefly. They handle their own affairs, and they don't answer to anyone. At least, not in these early days before the Federation.

I also liked the design of the freighter ship. Very cool. Oh, and I noticed that Keene, the Fortunate's captain, had the same name as the captain of the Justinian, which was the first ship that Horatio Hornblower served on. I wonder if that was intentional. ...Probably not.
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Old May 1 2013, 06:00 AM   #77
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Since Roddenberry's inspiration for Kirk was Hornblower, it could have been a nod to that.

That opening shot of the Fortunate was beautiful.
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Old May 1 2013, 06:53 AM   #78
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Melakon wrote: View Post
Since Roddenberry's inspiration for Kirk was Hornblower, it could have been a nod to that.
Wait, what? How did I not know that? That's awesome! Although I don't see much of Hornblower in Kirk. Now, Picard, on the other hand... I could totally see Picard being influenced by Hornblower. Both are reserved, analytical, introverted, and extremely well-read.

But I didn't know Roddenberry was a C.S. Forester fan. That makes me happy.
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Old May 1 2013, 07:45 AM   #79
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Well enjoy the Mayweather centered episode... there aren't many. Which is a pity because I kind of thought the freighter culture was interesting too, at least until it got repetitive... yes Travis... we know you live in space... and apparently all there is to do is have sex.

Now... to the meat of the episode... well I can sum this up easily. Archer is stupid. "What gives you the right to take prisoners?" Okay... would you rather them have killed the fellow? Or just let the pirates loot their ship? Both seem worse to me. The whole premise of the episode is hey... Starfleet isn't protecting them. So yeah, I think they have every right to defend themselves.

Archer then expresses concern that by taking a prisoner they'll incite the Nausicans to be aggressive... yeah if you're not careful they'll start attacking your cargo ships or something. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that torturing the Nausican for information was the right thing to do, but these are YOUR people Archer. Take the prisoner, promise the Fortunate you'll take care of things, call up Forrest and have him file a diplomatic protest to their government. That's how you handle things.

The Fortunate did take things too far by retaliating... but Archer wasn't offering ANY sort of alternative. Indeed he actively sides AGAINST the people he's supposed to be helping forcing the confrontation at the end. Between the Fortunate and the Nausicans... and him and his own people. I mean, if Archer's the best Starfleet has and he can't even manage basic diplomacy... the Vulcans are right, they need to stay at Earth.
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Old May 1 2013, 07:57 AM   #80
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R. Star wrote: View Post
Archer then expresses concern that by taking a prisoner they'll incite the Nausicans to be aggressive... yeah if you're not careful they'll start attacking your cargo ships or something. Now don't get me wrong, I don't think that torturing the Nausican for information was the right thing to do, but these are YOUR people Archer. Take the prisoner, promise the Fortunate you'll take care of things, call up Forrest and have him file a diplomatic protest to their government. That's how you handle things.
Yes! Like I said, I just don't understand his reasoning here. He said that by taking a prisoner, they would be inviting more attacks by the Nausicaans. Uhhh... So what about that? They were already getting attacked by them on a regular basis. What's the difference?

The Fortunate did take things too far by retaliating... but Archer wasn't offering ANY sort of alternative. Indeed he actively sides AGAINST the people he's supposed to be helping forcing the confrontation at the end. Between the Fortunate and the Nausicans... and him and his own people. I mean, if Archer's the best Starfleet has and he can't even manage basic diplomacy... the Vulcans are right, they need to stay at Earth.
EXACTLY. I know I said I would try not to compare ENT to the other shows, but during this whole episode I couldn't help thinking, "Well, Kirk never would have done it like this. Or Picard. Or Sisko or Janeway. What is wrong with this man??"
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Old May 1 2013, 08:08 AM   #81
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

I think they just totally botched whatever they intended Archer's big speech to be. Astonishingly, B & B's names are not on the script. Maybe Archer was supposed to suggest that next time the Nausicaans wouldn't be as careful, and would just destroy their targets.
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Old May 1 2013, 08:59 AM   #82
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

I think we see Archer really quite over his head in Fortunate Son. Which may have been what they intended but if we puny 21st century folk can come up with better diplomacy (like "call Forrest" LOL) it's lame. What we should have seen is Archer make decisions that we can see the logic of and seem to be solid, good decisions, but they blow up in his face and he has to learn to be more of a lateral thinking like Kirk.
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Old May 1 2013, 08:53 PM   #83
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teacake wrote: View Post
What we should have seen is Archer make decisions that we can see the logic of and seem to be solid, good decisions, but they blow up in his face and he has to learn to be more of a lateral thinking like Kirk.
I'm still waiting for this to happen. But so far, what I've seen of Archer has led me to the conclusion that if I were under his command, I'd probably jettison myself in an escape pod at the earliest available opportunity.
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Old May 1 2013, 09:15 PM   #84
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

It does sort of explain why Hoshi was so paranoid about away missions.
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Old May 1 2013, 09:21 PM   #85
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Archer gets less crazy by season 3. All things considered though, I'd still rather serve on the NX-02.
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Old May 1 2013, 11:42 PM   #86
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Ah, well, you see? I never made it past Season Two during the original airing, so I never found out if it got any better. If I had been patient for just a little while longer, I could have saved myself a lot of trouble. Instead, I get to bore everyone with my rewatch/review thread.
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Old May 2 2013, 12:12 AM   #87
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Archer does the right thing. These guys gotta protect their cargo, not take prisoners, mistreat them and make the Nausicaans do more than just take their cargo.
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Old May 2 2013, 12:20 AM   #88
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horatio83 wrote: View Post
Archer does the right thing. These guys gotta protect their cargo, not take prisoners, mistreat them and make the Nausicaans do more than just take their cargo.
Taking the prisoner wasn't wrong. As I said previously, the alternatives are to kill him, or let him rob you blind. Both seem worse. Archer doing the right thing though? He escalated the situation with that silly threat to remove all the components they installed when he should've been trying to talk the Fortunate down, and take the prisoner(who by maritime law is a pirate) until Starfleet can establish diplomatic contact with the Naussicans and sort this out.
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Old May 2 2013, 12:31 AM   #89
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

First Officer Ryan's mistake was torturing the prisoner. Then he lied about the situation when Enterprise responded to a distress call sent without his consent. He wanted to prove himself capable, but instead Shaka, when the walls fell.
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Old May 2 2013, 12:40 AM   #90
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Re: Ryva Takes On Enterprise (Again)

Melakon wrote: View Post
He wanted to prove himself capable, but instead Shaka, when the walls fell.
You must have seen my post about "Darmok".
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