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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS"
Geronimo! 39 33.05%
Good 46 38.98%
Average 24 20.34%
Not worth salvaging 7 5.93%
This episode should have stayed in the center of the TARDIS 2 1.69%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 1 2013, 01:39 PM   #241
Starkers
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

^Did you not see the Christmas special?

"I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time and this is my wife..."
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Old May 1 2013, 01:51 PM   #242
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Plus, earlier in the episode when Vastra and Jenny are confronting Dr. Simeon one of them says "we're married."

Personally, that needs to be explained a bit better. Was Victorian England really progressive enough to recognize marriage between a human and a reptile?
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Old May 1 2013, 01:53 PM   #243
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Well I reckon the Doctor probably took them to another planet where it is legal...maybe
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Old May 1 2013, 01:54 PM   #244
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
He's also, you know, married and stuff.
See above. The wedding was symbolic at most...
As opposed to what? The Doctor can't get married now unless he hunts down some legal documents from Gallifrey and finds a Time Lord judge to put a stamp of approval on it?

Whatever. My point is that the Doctor is in a fucking intimate relationship. Sure he flirts and whatnot, just like River does with anything that has a pulse, but he's not the type of person to go and actually cheat. Physically or emotionally. And yes, it's a very unconventional marriage, but what do you expect from the Doctor? Nevermind that he gets incredibly uncomfortable and quickly-changes-the-subjecty whenever flirting gets too intense.

It's like you guys have this really weird idea of who and what the Doctor is as a person, then get pissed off because you start making random shit up to go with it. It's mind boggling. The Doctor is married and the Doctor is an inherently good and moral person. He's not some scumbag sex fiend trying to fuck everyone he meets.
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Old May 1 2013, 02:01 PM   #245
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Starkers wrote: View Post
Well I reckon the Doctor probably took them to another planet where it is legal...maybe
That just creates more problems. Say for whatever reasons they have to present papers proving they're married. "I've never heard of this Raxacoricofallapatorius place you claim to have been married."
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Old May 1 2013, 02:04 PM   #246
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Starkers wrote: View Post
^Did you not see the Christmas special?

"I'm a lizard woman from the dawn of time and this is my wife..."
I did but I totally forgot that awesome line, in the midst of the "meh" that was the rest of the episode.
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Old May 1 2013, 02:15 PM   #247
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
Isn't Madame Vastra married to a human? And that cat guy in the episode where Martha got kidnapped had a human wife. And Captain Jack is "51st century guy" pansexual and all.
It isn't the interspecies part that is bothersome, but rather the vast difference in evolutionary levels, intelligence levels, etc. I can't imagine a Time Lord making any sort of meaningful connection with a human.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Leela married a Timelord.
Okay, you win. Although she doesn't marry anybody in canon, it is heavily implied (in The Invasion of Time) that she and Andred, a Time Lord, fall in love with each other. Also, in the First Doctor serial The Dalek Invasion of Earth, Susan leaves the TARDIS due to a romantic attachment to a human (David).

So I suppose that there have been canonical instances of human-Time Lord relationships. To me, it seems like a "normal" person having a romantic relationship with a severely mentally disabled person, but I suppose canon is not on my side.

As an aside, in The Doctor's Daughter, when Jenny asks Donna if she and the Doctor are together, she replies, "What? No. No. No way. No, no, we're friends, that's all. I mean, we're not even the same species. There's probably laws against it." But the line was more of a joke than a canonical pronouncement.
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Old May 1 2013, 02:16 PM   #248
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
He's also, you know, married and stuff.
See above. The wedding was symbolic at most...
As opposed to what? The Doctor can't get married now unless he hunts down some legal documents from Gallifrey and finds a Time Lord judge to put a stamp of approval on it?

Whatever. My point is that the Doctor is in a fucking intimate relationship. Sure he flirts and whatnot, just like River does with anything that has a pulse, but he's not the type of person to go and actually cheat. Physically or emotionally. And yes, it's a very unconventional marriage, but what do you expect from the Doctor? Nevermind that he gets incredibly uncomfortable and quickly-changes-the-subjecty whenever flirting gets too intense.

It's like you guys have this really weird idea of who and what the Doctor is as a person, then get pissed off because you start making random shit up to go with it. It's mind boggling. The Doctor is married and the Doctor is an inherently good and moral person. He's not some scumbag sex fiend trying to fuck everyone he meets.
Actually I think he'd rather make love than spew venom at people who do. He is inherently good after all and mostly free of major cognitive biases.
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Old May 1 2013, 03:24 PM   #249
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
He's also, you know, married and stuff.
See above. The wedding was symbolic at most...
As opposed to what? The Doctor can't get married now unless he hunts down some legal documents from Gallifrey and finds a Time Lord judge to put a stamp of approval on it?

Whatever. My point is that the Doctor is in a fucking intimate relationship. Sure he flirts and whatnot, just like River does with anything that has a pulse, but he's not the type of person to go and actually cheat. Physically or emotionally. And yes, it's a very unconventional marriage, but what do you expect from the Doctor? Nevermind that he gets incredibly uncomfortable and quickly-changes-the-subjecty whenever flirting gets too intense.

It's like you guys have this really weird idea of who and what the Doctor is as a person, then get pissed off because you start making random shit up to go with it. It's mind boggling. The Doctor is married and the Doctor is an inherently good and moral person. He's not some scumbag sex fiend trying to fuck everyone he meets.
And you've missed my point entirely. As well, it would seem, of the overall implications of their relationship by the way they actually behave towards each other. A single scene in an alternate universe does not define them. A River near the end of her timeline may well be heartbroken if she ever saw The Doctor in love with someone else, but they simply aren't compatible for any sort of long term committed relationship and have accepted that, in spite of what they feel for each other (and some might argue exactly what and how much they each feel for the other, considering their very different experiences) and chosen specifically not to try to force it by staying together. This happens to real people all the time, just without the time travel aspect to consider.

Believe what you will, but this all seems rather obvious to me.
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Old May 1 2013, 06:10 PM   #250
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Slugboy wrote: View Post
It isn't the interspecies part that is bothersome, but rather the vast difference in evolutionary levels, intelligence levels, etc. I can't imagine a Time Lord making any sort of meaningful connection with a human.
Now that's a bit of a paradox, because there is - maybe you've heard of it - a television series which is all about a Time Lord who spends all his time making meaningful connections with humans, and never seeking the company of more evolved species.
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Old May 1 2013, 06:14 PM   #251
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

The Mirrorball Man wrote: View Post
Slugboy wrote: View Post
It isn't the interspecies part that is bothersome, but rather the vast difference in evolutionary levels, intelligence levels, etc. I can't imagine a Time Lord making any sort of meaningful connection with a human.
Now that's a bit of a paradox, because there is - maybe you've heard of it - a television series which is all about a Time Lord who spends all his time making meaningful connections with humans, and never seeking the company of more evolved species.
Indeed. Perhaps other Time Lords wouldn't be able to form these kinds of meaningful relationships with humans, but the Doctor loves humans. There's a reason he keeps going back to Earth.

Besides, at this point it has been several hundred years since the Doctor ended the Time War. He's been the only Time Lord (more or less) in existence that whole time. He's bound to start becoming a lot more humany wumany over the years as he spends more and more time with humans.

What I found funny about Matt Smith's arc with the Ponds was how much he almost "devolved" over time. He started as this old man who was sort of like a father figure to Amelia Pond, but over time, as Amy and Rory grew up and the Doctor kind of became like their son. At the end of "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe," when he shows up at the Ponds' house for Christmas, I felt more like he was their long-lost son who ran away from home, too scared to come back for fear of what they might think of him, only to return to find that they still loved him very much and just wanted him home.
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Old May 1 2013, 11:47 PM   #252
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
Starkers wrote: View Post
Well I reckon the Doctor probably took them to another planet where it is legal...maybe
That just creates more problems. Say for whatever reasons they have to present papers proving they're married. "I've never heard of this Raxacoricofallapatorius place you claim to have been married."
If it was an issue, do you really think a marriage certificate would trump the whole lizard woman thing?
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Old May 2 2013, 12:22 AM   #253
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Konata Izumi wrote: View Post
Mister Fandango wrote: View Post
Venardhi wrote: View Post
See above. The wedding was symbolic at most...
As opposed to what? The Doctor can't get married now unless he hunts down some legal documents from Gallifrey and finds a Time Lord judge to put a stamp of approval on it?

Whatever. My point is that the Doctor is in a fucking intimate relationship. Sure he flirts and whatnot, just like River does with anything that has a pulse, but he's not the type of person to go and actually cheat. Physically or emotionally. And yes, it's a very unconventional marriage, but what do you expect from the Doctor? Nevermind that he gets incredibly uncomfortable and quickly-changes-the-subjecty whenever flirting gets too intense.

It's like you guys have this really weird idea of who and what the Doctor is as a person, then get pissed off because you start making random shit up to go with it. It's mind boggling. The Doctor is married and the Doctor is an inherently good and moral person. He's not some scumbag sex fiend trying to fuck everyone he meets.
Actually I think he'd rather make love than spew venom at people who do. He is inherently good after all and mostly free of major cognitive biases.
And River already died, so there's that...
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Old May 2 2013, 03:55 AM   #254
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

^ Indeed. He's not stepping out on his wife because from his perspective she's already died. Well, she died when he first met her, but that is he'll never see her again after that last date they had where he gave her the screwdriver. So he's basically a widower - is he not allowed to move on. Assuming the wedding counted of course, which is fine by me.

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
He started as this old man who was sort of like a father figure to Amelia Pond, but over time, as Amy and Rory grew up and the Doctor kind of became like their son. At the end of "The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe," when he shows up at the Ponds' house for Christmas, I felt more like he was their long-lost son who ran away from home, too scared to come back for fear of what they might think of him, only to return to find that they still loved him very much and just wanted him home.
I actually really like this part of Eleven's relationship with the Ponds. It's not consistently portrayed or perfect, but it's something that's very unique and I like it.
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Old May 2 2013, 03:57 AM   #255
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Re: 7X10 Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS(Grading/Discussion)(SPOIL

Stoo wrote: View Post
Remember something else that bugged me. That bit in the Engine Room about people not being able to touch each other or time.. reasserts itself? And they fast forward to zombie status?
I just figured out this whole "no touching" rule now. The Doctor wasn't saying that people shouldn't touch each other in general. Rather, he was specifically addressing the two Van Baalen brothers (Gregor and Tricky the "android"), telling them that they shouldn't touch each other. Here's why:

There were three zombie creatures...a standalone zombie creature, and two zombie creatures that were always connected together (like they were conjoined twins). The Doctor refers to the standalone creature as "she", which I figure means he has a pretty good idea it is future Clara. Therefore the twin creatures must be Gregor and Tricky. In order for the twin creature to form, Gregor and Tricky had to be holding onto each other to be fused together like that. The Doctor figures that if the two brothers don't touch each other, there is no way the twin creature could be formed at the moment (since it must be formed at some future time when they are touching), and hence it would delay the formation of the twin creature (preventing the already-occurred timeline from occurring). Notice that once Gregor and Tricky do touch each other (when Gregor grabs Tricky by the arm) they burn and fuse together to form the very twin creature. (this is Time re-asserting itself)

I agree, it's not the greatest reasoning, but I think that was what the writer had in mind when he wrote the scene.
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