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Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 30 2013, 02:55 PM   #1
Chrono85
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Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

This is something that has always amused me, and I have never been able to think of any kind of reasonable explanation for it. In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, when the Klingon is complaining to the Federation people about the shenanigans with the Enterprise in the previous movie, they are viewing footage of the incident on a screen. Here we see outside shots of the enterprise, and we see it exploding, in shots taken directly from Star Trek III. How did they manage to get such footage? Were there cameras floating around in the space around the ship? Would such devices survive the explosion, and how still, would they record the ships subsequent descent into the atmosphere of the planet?
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Old April 30 2013, 03:18 PM   #2
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

The imagery could simply be 100% synthetic.

Moreover, the audience would recognize it as such, and would have full reason to think that it's also 100% contrary to the truth. But that wasn't the point of the visual demonstration - the point was to get an emotional reaction from the audience (in the courtroom as well as beyond the fourth wall), and the Klingons got one all right. Too bad they misjudged the Federation psyche and failed to understand that the audience would gasp at the loss of the beautiful Starfleet starship, not the cruel fates of the Klingon attackers...

Really, if we saw such visuals today, they'd most probably be 90% fake, and the 10% real material would only be there because of current technological shortcomings, not because of any desire to stick to the truth.

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Old April 30 2013, 04:54 PM   #3
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

Well the interior shots were also saved somehow also, maybe a probe ejects right as the ship was blowing up, or the ship was broadcasting somewhere. As was as the exterior shots they could have come from the BOP and Kirk gave the data to Sarek so he could show the Federation council what happened
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Old April 30 2013, 05:32 PM   #4
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

ISTR that Vonda McIntyre's novelisation adds a mention that Matz somehow transmitted the footage that the Klingon ambassador shows back to Klingon High Command from the Bird of Prey, before killing himself. Sp on that explanation, the exterior shots of the Enterprise came from the Bird of Prey's log. How the Klingons got the interior shots...
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Old April 30 2013, 06:18 PM   #5
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

Chrono85 wrote: View Post
This is something that has always amused me, and I have never been able to think of any kind of reasonable explanation for it. In Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, when the Klingon is complaining to the Federation people about the shenanigans with the Enterprise in the previous movie, they are viewing footage of the incident on a screen. Here we see outside shots of the enterprise, and we see it exploding, in shots taken directly from Star Trek III. How did they manage to get such footage? Were there cameras floating around in the space around the ship? Would such devices survive the explosion, and how still, would they record the ships subsequent descent into the atmosphere of the planet?
Several years ago I wrote a halfway tongue-in-cheek theory on exactly this subject (and to explain a few other things):

R.O.V.E.R.S.
Robotic
Observation
Virtual-enhanced
Extra-vehicular
Recording
System


In the early years of spaceflight, UESPA's Starfleet forces quickly learned that captains and their crews had trouble assimilating data from external feeds during stressful combat situations due to the lack of audio-visual data. Ships and their weapons were silent, energy beams were invisible without a medium to travel through, explosions lacked the necessary large flames that conveyed an immediate threat without oxygen to act as a combustion source.

Computerized data provided the answers but it lacked the swiftness of simply observing the situation with your own eyes and ears and instantly responding: Visually tracking an energy beam to its source, responding to the severity of an explosion by avoiding the blast wave or scrambling emergency personnel to the area, knowing an enemy is firing at you by the sound of their torpedoes, outmaneuvering a ship because you can hear their engines straining in a turn.

Thus, the R.O.V.E.R.S. program was born. Using the very best in special effects wizardry of the fledgling holographic digital film industry of the day, ROVERS were small independently operating spherical robotic probes about the size of a softball launched from a vessel in anticipation of a coming battle or an encounter with a vessel or an anomaly of some type. The ship's main computer launches them automatically without any human interaction needed and does it on the instant of detecting a threat level incident or something of exploratory value.

They remain linked with the ship's main computer at all times and it acts as their central brain. Their one and only task is to provide data in the full EM spectrum on their home vessel and any nearby vessels / anomalies / objects, etc. They have limited thruster capability but are cheap and easy to produce and are simply left behind if the ship moves out of the area and are replaced by new ones. They can only be accessed by Starfleet fractal encryption sequences and are equipped with simple self-destruct mechanisms if tampered with to prevent the enemy from acquiring their data. (Though some crazy rumors that have Starfleet Command deeply worried have recently surfaced that the data can be accessed through late 20th and early 21st century television sets for unknown reasons likely related to a temporal anomaly of some sort. j/k)

The devices serve many purposes:

- Convey pseudo-auditory data to the crew of a starship - revving and turning engines, explosions, beam weapons, screams of a dying spaceborne lifeform, crashing asteroids, etc. None of these are real of course, they are simply extrapolated from subspace EM sensors and using intuitive programming the computer guesses what they should sound like if they happened in an M-Class atmosphere similar to that aboard the ship.
- Illuminate enemy energy beams so they can be tracked back to their source. Though at short ranges the beam has already invisibly hit your vessel before the projection is overlayed in most cases (except at longer ranges where the subspace FTL sensors can overlay the data before the sublight particle beam or light speed laser beam arrives at its target), in terms of human observation and response times it appears instantaneous.
- Overlay the impression of visible blast waves and blazing fires from large explosions calculated to appear more threatening based on the computers intuitive threat level estimates. These serve to visibly indicate weak points on your own and enemy vessels to you by showing burning flames. In case of a large blast wave like that of the Klingon moon Praxis where there is no time to escape, the computer will display the wavefront along the ship's axis of flight even though it is actually a spherical wave.
- Act as a "Black Box" flight data recorder for a destroyed vessel. This happened in the case of the NCC-1701 Enterprise when it was destroyed above the Genesis Planet via self-destruct. External ROVERS recorded the whole incident so it could be replayed before the Federation Council once they were recovered. Unfortunately since the ROVERS have no more than a very short range thruster system they can't seek out Starfleet vessels, but their onboard encrypted transponders do make them easy to find in most cases.


ROVERS were even modified for use inside the ships themselves. They float about casually filming every aspect of onboard life - never attracting attention as they hover up in the shadows - specifically designed to remain out of sight so as not to bother the crew. Every important room on a ship became equipped with at least one to film what was going on in-concert with pre-existing fixed position 360 degree view cameras in the walls installed during the "Wall-Eye" Program of 2250 for the new NX-01 Enterprise. They were put to good use by Admiral Kirk and Sarek while investigating whom Spock left his Katra with after the Khan Incident of 2285.

Future endeavors in the field seek to create "Virtual Viewers" using downscaled technology borrowed from the MIDAS and ARGUS Arrays which use targeted micro-wormholes which allow sensor data to flow both ways between them. Soon it will be possible to dial-up a location and view it without any actual need for hardware on-site. This will bring a revolution in espionage, flight data recording, and communications ability.

As always, Starfleet heeds the advice of its personnel about the dangers of such technology creating a "Big Brother" mentality. A favorite Latin phrase employed by those opposed to the overuse of the internal ROVERS devices is "Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" or "Who watches the watchmen?" They are often reminded of the fact that Starfleet is not a democracy, it simply protects democracy, and that they are serving on a military vessel that could quite easily wipe out entire planets or even stars with modern weapons and that extra security measures are justified as long as they are not abused.

The typical response by Starfleet is to invoke Section 31 - Paragraph 1 of the Federation Charter:

"Starfleet personnel must consider it their most sacred duty to take any and all action deemed necessary to defend the Federation first and foremost against all enemies, foreign and domestic, regardless of physical or ethical cost or personal and professional risk."

The purpose of this article was to find an explanation for certain strange occurrences in Trek such as:

- The NCC-1701 being filmed from the outside as it exploded in "The Search for Spock" - a recording which was later shown to the Federation Council. This is after the Bird of Prey flew away to avoid the explosion mind you, so that camera angle couldn't have come from it.
- Epsilon 9 station still sending telemetry and video data to Earth after it had been "digitized" by V'ger and disappeared completely in "The Motion Picture".
- The video feed from the Neutral Zone asteroid base in TOS: "Balance of Terror" still showing up after it had been destroyed.
- The computer having a shot of Spock removing Scotty's gloves in "The Wrath of Khan" from a perspective about one foot off the floor in an open walkway section of engineering. Granted, and internal camera might have been able to capture that feed, but it was an odd angle for an internal security monitor.


http://canonfodder.ex-astris-scienti...gy:R.O.V.E.R.S.
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Old April 30 2013, 06:29 PM   #6
Chrono85
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

That is a well thought-out explanation Locutus Although, I suspect that nothing like that was on the minds of the writers of the time, or it would have been at least explained in a short line of dialogue Ir's really just an example of a bit of lazy writing or oversight on their part! Your explanation does seem plausible
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Old April 30 2013, 07:12 PM   #7
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

It's not lazy writing, it's stock footage to fill in anyone who didn't see the previous movie. These things happen.

That said, the interior shots could be from the E's flight recorder which was ejected before the ship exploded, while the exterior shots could be from the BoP.

Honestly though, this seems like one of the sillier rounds of speculation we've engaged in (yes, yes, one of -many-).

A less silly round of speculation would be why the bridge of the BoP looks completely different than it did in the previous film, and I suspect some posters can come up with just as creative explanations.
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Old April 30 2013, 07:50 PM   #8
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

The same thing happened in STIII, the "flight recorder visual" showing the end of STII, complete with all camera angle changes we got in the movie. And the Talosians were kind enough to project images with similar camera angle changes and even the cool intro fly-in shot, in "The Minagerie"

It's just one of those things. The Into Darkness trailers show something a little more realistic - a kind of rewindable live Google Street View. But such a thing wouldn't have been possible to depict in the 80's.
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Old April 30 2013, 10:11 PM   #9
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

I reckon the Enterprise launched a probe just before self destruct.. like a black box. So someone can find out WTF occurred and it happened to have a camera on it to capture external events as well.
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Old May 1 2013, 06:08 AM   #10
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

This happens all the time in movies, and especially scifi movies. Epsilon 9 get toasted and something is still transmitting an image of the V'ger cloud, fer instance.
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Old May 1 2013, 08:23 AM   #11
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

Likewise we might assume that there are satellites with cameras all around the quadrant or just for special purposes. One TNG episode supports the idea of cameras floating in space, when Cadet Crusher and his friends were convicted by the academy.
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Old May 1 2013, 09:15 AM   #12
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

Wait a minute. Surely they just have to send a ship out to a few light-days from where the Enterprise was destroyed and point a camera? They'd catch the lightwave and see it all.

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Old May 1 2013, 09:51 AM   #13
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

The Klingon ship recorded sensor information of the event. After Kirk captured the ship he transmitted the information to Starfleet with his log.
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Old May 1 2013, 10:40 AM   #14
Maurice
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

King Daniel wrote: View Post
Wait a minute. Surely they just have to send a ship out to a few light-days from where the Enterprise was destroyed and point a camera? They'd catch the lightwave and see it all.

Yeah, but with effectively zero perspective, so it wouldn't look like the shot in the movie where the ship is close to the camera and there's obvious diminishing of features with distance.
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Old May 1 2013, 03:14 PM   #15
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Re: Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home - Trial view-screen strangeness

diankra wrote: View Post
ISTR that Vonda McIntyre's novelisation adds a mention that Matz somehow transmitted the footage that the Klingon ambassador shows back to Klingon High Command from the Bird of Prey, before killing himself.
According to the original edition of Klingon Dictionary and the first two "Genesis Wave" novels, the rumour of Maltz's suicide (in the novelizations) is incorrect.
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