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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 30 2013, 04:30 PM   #61
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
"Rejoined" also muddies the waters, because it's not about Jadzia being attracted to a woman, it's about rekindling what was--once again--a heterosexual relationship.
Avery Brooks, who directed that episode, stressed that the significance wasn't on their gender but on their Symbionts and the past lives they had once shared. That's the way it should have been, have a relationship between two people, regardless of gender.

Since Trek has wussed out of having any kind of non-heterosexual main character, whenever they do include one if they are anything less than First Officer then there isn't much point. When they do include a gay character, it should be part of who they are, not their defining characteristic.
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Old April 30 2013, 04:43 PM   #62
Solstice
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
"Rejoined" also muddies the waters, because it's not about Jadzia being attracted to a woman, it's about rekindling what was--once again--a heterosexual relationship.
Avery Brooks, who directed that episode, stressed that the significance wasn't on their gender but on their Symbionts and the past lives they had once shared. That's the way it should have been, have a relationship between two people, regardless of gender.
Yeah, the symbionts themselves appear to be androgynous and essentially bisexual in terms of hosts--that is, they go along with whatever the host's sexual preference is, since a host is just a host.

I'm not criticizing "Rejoined" for what it is, just saying that it's a poor example of a Trek episode advocating for gay acceptance. The particulars of the story are simply too complex for the allegory to work that way.

Since Trek has wussed out of having any kind of non-heterosexual main character, whenever they do include one if they are anything less than First Officer then there isn't much point. When they do include a gay character, it should be part of who they are, not their defining characteristic.
I don't think anyone would argue with the last part.

I think a big part of why Trek hasn't attempted this is that sci-fi fans are overwhelmingly straight males, and those fans often fit very easily into a chauvinist mold that favors traditionally masculine values. Kirk himself is a collection of traditional male archetypes. It's also why Trek has been willing to flirt with lesbian behavior--it's meant to titillate straight men, not teach us something about equality.

In short, Trek has long liked to pay lip service to progressive ideology, but falls far, far short when it comes to messaging on gender and sexuality. In that regard, it has changed very little from its inception in the '60s.
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Old May 11 2013, 07:07 PM   #63
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

^Hence, why this article was written, and also why what I've posted (the Phase II episode) might work in a new movie of TV show (TV show, since a movie won't have enough time to show said GLBT character fully.
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Old May 11 2013, 08:29 PM   #64
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

If Star Trek were to ever make an overt attempt to portray a Gay character they should do it EXACTLY in the mold presented by Caprica.

In that show good old Joe Adama has a super macho hardened criminal brother who just so happens to be gay. We get a simple reveal when he comes home one day for the camera to pan and reveal that he has a husband. They have your every day general discourse and move on.

No grand moment, nothing. Just a matter-of-fact everyday occurance type scene. And in 2013 that is how such scenes should be played, especially in another or a distant future where Gay acceptance is a silly notion because "why wouldn't it it be accepted?"

Showing sex scenes and things of like to show how accepting you are isn't really doing that. And straight or Gay I find them to be a waste of screen time. Yes. They are actions taken by every couple in real life but in a film or TV show they only serve to slow a story down as showing sex rarely adds to a story and usually serves as a time killer or a way to get eyes on your movie but personally I find that they serve no purpose in a well told story.
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Old May 11 2013, 10:07 PM   #65
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

^Obviously, there are a ton of great movies that you'll never see (or novels that you'll never read) in which sex plays a great part... (like this one or this one, or this one), or even this one (to say nothing of all the other novels and movies that sex plays a large part in!)

A little reminder; just because you and a few people here don't care about sex, doesn't mean that others don't. Sex is a part of human life.
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Old May 11 2013, 10:18 PM   #66
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
A little reminder; just because you and a few people here don't care about sex, doesn't mean that others don't. Sex is a part of human life.
I'm sorry but the physical act itself tends to almost never add anything to a story.
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Old May 11 2013, 10:20 PM   #67
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
^Obviously, there are a ton of great movies that you'll never see (or novels that you'll never read) in which sex plays a great part... (like this one or this one, or this one), or even this one (to say nothing of all the other novels and movies that sex plays a large part in!)

A little reminder; just because you and a few people here don't care about sex, doesn't mean that others don't. Sex is a part of human life.
It is a part of human life, but I don't think there should be overt sex in a movie. I want a movie about a story, not a porno. So don't roll your eyes at us when we think that the act of sex shouldn't play a massive role in an episode (and God forbid an entire movie!).
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Old May 11 2013, 10:44 PM   #68
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Does Zachary Quinto being gay count?
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Old May 11 2013, 11:21 PM   #69
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Why does everyone jump to sex when talking about a gay relationship? We have romantic interests already in Star Trek. What is the difference between a romantic interest that is gay and one that is straight? Except, that it would show that it's okay in the 23rd century (or 24th) to have a homosexual relationship?

Imagine if Uhura was a man and comforted Spock in the turbolift? Is that gratuitous sex? I don't think so. I am constantly bambazzled by the fact that a woman can have her shirt off and grind on a guy in a movie, show her in her skivvies (Uhura in '09 or the Green chick?), but a touch of hands or a kiss and suddenly it's too much sex? Double standard much?
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Old May 12 2013, 12:26 AM   #70
Cinema Geekly
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

^^^^

No problem with that at all. Although I'm sure too many people would find it to "in your face".
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Old May 12 2013, 12:36 AM   #71
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Why does everyone jump to sex when talking about a gay relationship? We have romantic interests already in Star Trek. What is the difference between a romantic interest that is gay and one that is straight? Except, that it would show that it's okay in the 23rd century (or 24th) to have a homosexual relationship?

Imagine if Uhura was a man and comforted Spock in the turbolift? Is that gratuitous sex? I don't think so. I am constantly bambazzled by the fact that a woman can have her shirt off and grind on a guy in a movie, show her in her skivvies (Uhura in '09 or the Green chick?), but a touch of hands or a kiss and suddenly it's too much sex? Double standard much?
I don't think anyone here is against minor physical affection. But there's a difference between that and full-on sex.
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Old May 12 2013, 01:22 AM   #72
HaventGotALife
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

BillJ wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
Why does everyone jump to sex when talking about a gay relationship? We have romantic interests already in Star Trek. What is the difference between a romantic interest that is gay and one that is straight? Except, that it would show that it's okay in the 23rd century (or 24th) to have a homosexual relationship?

Imagine if Uhura was a man and comforted Spock in the turbolift? Is that gratuitous sex? I don't think so. I am constantly bambazzled by the fact that a woman can have her shirt off and grind on a guy in a movie, show her in her skivvies (Uhura in '09 or the Green chick?), but a touch of hands or a kiss and suddenly it's too much sex? Double standard much?
I don't think anyone here is against minor physical affection. But there's a difference between that and full-on sex.
No one is asking for Star Trek to do a gay porno. Just have a gay character.
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Old May 12 2013, 01:26 AM   #73
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Well, the GATT2000 character on the bridge of the nuPrise in "Into Darkness" appears to be at least AC/DC.
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Old May 12 2013, 06:09 AM   #74
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Here’s How to Do It

Admiral Buzzkill wrote: View Post
Well, the GATT2000 character on the bridge of the nuPrise in "Into Darkness" appears to be at least AC/DC.


Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
We all know the secret gay romance of TOS, it would explain all the tension between the two of them in the first Nu-Trek movie.


HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
No one is asking for Star Trek to do a gay porno. Just have a gay character.


All the mirror universes, androgynous, DAX type gay characters are just cop-outs IMO

And in the history of Star Trek movies, they haven't really shown that many couple type relationships shown except in ST09 . In the 1st 10 movies, you had Scotty/Uhura, Troi/Riker, Picard/Baku girl. Too many other things to do in the movies I suppose.
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