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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old April 25 2013, 05:48 PM   #46
Franklin
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Found this from the website linked to after the quote:

Star Trek: The Next Generation (science fiction) Syndicated 1987-1994. Dr. Crusher's orderly in an unproduced first season script, Ensign Freeman, was supposed to be gay. A 1991 promise by series creator Gene Roddenberry to introduce minor regular gay characters during the 1991/92 season was reneged on by Paramount after Roddenberry's death.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~wyatt/t...ters.html#1961

Off topic, but playing around on that website, it seems gay characters began to break through in TV shows in the 1970s. For example "Soap", "Hot L Baltimore", "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman", and "Barney Miller" had regular or recurring gay characters. "M*A*S*H" had an episode about a gay soldier; "All in the Family" had a couple of episodes about a transvestite that befriended Archie and another episode where Archie finds out one of his best childhood friends is gay; in an episode of "The Bob Newhart" show, one of Bob's patients says he's gay. Gay characters started appearing in soap operas.
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Old April 26 2013, 03:48 AM   #47
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

feek61 wrote: View Post
Really, why even make a distinction? Can't they all be Starfleet members? I agree in the film franchise it may be too contrived feeling. A series is a different story.
I don't that this is needed in Star Trek at this time.
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Old April 26 2013, 09:03 AM   #48
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Franklin wrote: View Post
Off topic, but playing around on that website, it seems gay characters began to break through in TV shows in the 1970s.
Australian prime time soap opera, "Number 96" (1972-77), featured a young gay law student (later a fully-fledged lawyer and landlord) who, during the course of the show, has several flings and a few successful, longterm relationships with men - and he turned out to be one of the most popular characters, both with the other characters in the series and with the general public. Don Finlayson was only one of three main characters to stay with this hugely popular five-nights-a-week show all six years and he (and the writers) did a huge amount for gay Australians identifying with such a character.

Prior to that character's creation, most gay men on TV turned out to be criminals, rapists, murderers, screaming queens, totally mixed-up bisexuals pretending to be straight, or crossdressers. Or they were killed off very quickly.
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Old April 26 2013, 09:29 AM   #49
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

We all know the secret gay romance of TOS, it would explain all the tension between the two of them in the first Nu-Trek movie.
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Old April 27 2013, 10:43 AM   #50
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

BillJ wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
^Actually, it was done quite well in this episode of Star Trek: Phase II:

That was horrible and the worst possible way to show it. I don't need to watch two people fall all over each other to get the idea that they're committed to one another whether it be man-woman, man-man or woman-woman.
Gotta agree. Terrible script.
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Old April 27 2013, 11:46 AM   #51
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Putting a gay character in Star Trek would be neither difficult nor controversial. If a programme wants to trade on the fact that it is a 'progressive depiction of the future', then it has no excuses on this front.
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Old April 27 2013, 02:07 PM   #52
Shaka Zulu
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

^THIS.
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Old April 27 2013, 05:20 PM   #53
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
Putting a gay character in Star Trek would be neither difficult nor controversial. If a programme wants to trade on the fact that it is a 'progressive depiction of the future', then it has no excuses on this front.
Does Star Trek still play on that image? ST09 had none of the progressive political baggage of earlier iterations. It inherited the racial diversity of the original TOS, and that's about it. As far as I'm concerned - good riddance.
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Old April 27 2013, 05:36 PM   #54
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Talosian wrote: View Post

Does Star Trek still play on that image? ST09 had none of the progressive political baggage of earlier iterations. It inherited the racial diversity of the original TOS, and that's about it. As far as I'm concerned - good riddance.
Star Trek 2009 had quite a bit of background aliens.
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Old April 27 2013, 05:39 PM   #55
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
donners22 wrote: View Post
Sigokat wrote: View Post
Mirror Kira was Bi-Sexual.
Sex for her was more about power and narcissism. Big difference to a character having a loving relationship with a person of the same sex.
Yes, she was all about power and narcissism, but she clearly enjoyed sex, with both men and women
Perhaps, but that only goes so far. Like Nicole Wallace on L&O:CI, the Intendant may indeed have enjoyed sex - but only so much as it benefitted her. She was incapable of loving others or being truly interested in their well-being. FWIW.
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Old April 27 2013, 06:36 PM   #56
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Talosian wrote: View Post
CrazyHorse89 wrote: View Post
Putting a gay character in Star Trek would be neither difficult nor controversial. If a programme wants to trade on the fact that it is a 'progressive depiction of the future', then it has no excuses on this front.
Does Star Trek still play on that image? ST09 had none of the progressive political baggage of earlier iterations. It inherited the racial diversity of the original TOS, and that's about it. As far as I'm concerned - good riddance.
I can see where you're coming from, but I actually think that ST09 did to a certain extent still spout the 'progressive' mantra. In a number of interviews, the production team and the cast gave pretty big nods to the 'Star Trek is OUR future' motif.

But even if you don't buy that, think of it another way. In the Western world, homosexuality is no longer the taboo it once was. Discrimination based on sexual orientation is seen by many governments as a product of a bygone era, and the public tends to agree. We see homosexual, bi-sexual, and pansexual people on television and in print everyday. By not including a homosexual character, Star Trek is making a political statement. The absence of something or someone can be just as telling as the inclusion of something or someone.
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Old April 28 2013, 07:22 AM   #57
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

sttngfan1701d wrote: View Post
In my opinion it's tokenism. It smacks of an agenda. If you must include it, show it in passing, don't make a big deal of it, unless there's a Captain Jack-type character to pull it off.
I disagree with this. Now, don't get me wrong, I love Captain Jack, and I think John Barrowman is fantastic, but I don't think Trek needs a Captain Jack-type character, flirting with anyone with a pulse regardless of the configuration of their genitalia. That sort of thing is more likely to turn into a running joke than a serious depiction.

As others have said, that ship sailed a long time ago, and the only way to do it now without hanging a big neon sign over the scene saying, "See how progressive we are? Except not, because everyone else has already done this," is to just have a gay or bi character be there, with no particular emphasis placed on their orientation. 25 years ago, sure, they could have had a "very special episode of TNG." Now, they'd just look foolish doing it that way.

Xaios wrote: View Post
Didn't Star Trek already try to tackle this issue twice? First in the episode where Riker falls for that one person from a culture of genderless monosexuals, and again when Jadzia Dax fell in love with the new carrier of a symbiote who was previously bonded with the spouse of one of her previous hosts? Granted, that depiction was still of a persecuted minority, but it's something at least.
Gack.

"Rejoined" (if I'm remembering the DS9 episode title correctly) was interesting, and reasonably subtle, in that it used the Trill as an analogy - and Dax was pretty much the perfect character for that. But the TNG episode was terrible. It smacked of the writers using a sledgehammer when they should have used a scalpel.

What might have redeemed it - and Jonathan Frakes has said this publicly - is if they'd cast a male actor as Soran. But even then, the episode was pretty badly written to make A Point.

Maurice wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
Shaka Zulu wrote: View Post
^Actually, it was done quite well in this episode of Star Trek: Phase II:

That was horrible and the worst possible way to show it. I don't need to watch two people fall all over each other to get the idea that they're committed to one another whether it be man-woman, man-man or woman-woman.
Gotta agree. Terrible script.
I wouldn't say the script was terrible (though in the interest of full disclosure, perhaps I should admit that I may be biased, as the writer is a friend of mine - I've also read his original version, that he wrote back in 1987). I would say that the acting in Phase Two (that I've seen - I've only seen a couple of episodes) was pretty wooden.
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Old April 28 2013, 09:44 PM   #58
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

I actually watched it and I enjoyed the couple. I'm sure if they decided to actually pursue a gay couple on a future show or movie they could do just as well if not better.
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Old April 30 2013, 02:58 PM   #59
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Captain Atkin wrote: View Post
donners22 wrote: View Post

Sex for her was more about power and narcissism. Big difference to a character having a loving relationship with a person of the same sex.
Yes, she was all about power and narcissism, but she clearly enjoyed sex, with both men and women
Perhaps, but that only goes so far. Like Nicole Wallace on L&O:CI, the Intendant may indeed have enjoyed sex - but only so much as it benefitted her. She was incapable of loving others or being truly interested in their well-being. FWIW.
Not exactly a rare condition among humans.
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Old April 30 2013, 03:56 PM   #60
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Re: Star Trek Needs a Gay Character and Heres How to Do It

TorontoTrekker wrote: View Post
"Rejoined" (if I'm remembering the DS9 episode title correctly) was interesting, and reasonably subtle, in that it used the Trill as an analogy - and Dax was pretty much the perfect character for that. But the TNG episode was terrible. It smacked of the writers using a sledgehammer when they should have used a scalpel.
Yup. And both episodes undermined whatever "gay acceptance" message might have been in the subtext.

In "The Outcast," you had a character from an androgynous race who identified as female. This amounts to Riker having a purely heterosexual relationship with her. Her culture's disapproval mirrors present-day homophobia well enough, but as you said, it totally beats you over the head with it. There's no subtlety or nuance to it.

"Rejoined" also muddies the waters, because it's not about Jadzia being attracted to a woman, it's about rekindling what was--once again--a heterosexual relationship.

The Mirror Universe shenanigans are frankly embarrassing. The MU is full of "evil" people, and naturally, they are all sexual deviants.
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